SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hello, my fellow Dreadites, and welcome to the Dread Alert Podcast. I'm Vince. I'm Sarah. And we are talking about Late Night with the Devil. We're on an alternating schedule of movie selections here, and it is Sarah's turn to choose our deep dive. And Sarah has selected 2023, 2024's Late Night with the Devil.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

We're gonna go with 2024, because that is when most audiences saw this film. It did premiere at some film festivals in 2023, but I saw it in 2024.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

We considered it for our best of 2024 list, and I think that's a fair call.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yes, and it was number four on my list. This is an independent, supernatural horror movie, I would say, directed by brothers Colin and Cameron Carnes from Australia. I did not realize that this was an Australian production.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Most of the cast was Australian, I think, with the exception of David Desmelchin. And what I think is interesting about that is Australians culturally feel like they have an aversion to genre films, feel like they have an aversion to specifically horror films. Typically they don't perform as well at the box office domestically, although here we've seen quite a few really successful Australian horror films over the years. And what's interesting is that things like Talk to Me and Late Night with the Devil have seen a resurgence in Australian horror films, with the most recent one being Bring Her Back.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

I do think that that's very interesting. And this film, I think the reason I didn't realize that it's Australian is it's set in America and it ha it feels very American to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

There are elements that are extremely Australian though, with the scenic designer working on uh an Australian music show called Countdown and taking a lot of inspiration from the late night Australian host Don Lane, specifically the episode involving the amazing Creskin and when James Randi was criticizing Creskin and Don Lane told him to piss off on live television, which upset the entire nation. But Australia doesn't have a large history of late-night shows like we do in the US. So there was a lot of inspiration taken from Johnny Carson as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Right, and they had a lot of the casting crew watch those old late-night shows whenever they were getting started in pre-production on this film.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Yeah, and along with things like Network and The King of Comedy, this film takes its inspiration from a number of places.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

And it took them ten years to write this film.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

On and off for sure, yeah, but they did, and they enlisted help too. They they enlisted the team that made Lake Mungo to sort of give them that found footage perspective and make sure that some of the edges were sanded off and get the script in the hands of producers who could help make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And I think the interesting thing is that they also have those Australian Easter eggs that are scattered throughout the film that I would have never known if they hadn't been pointed out to me on the interviews that we saw on our Blu-ray.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

We've we're taking a lot of this from the Second Sight special edition release of the 4K of Late Night with the Devil. If you want to track that down, there's a lot of information that we're gonna cover here today on that, but also there's just a lot of good information on it. There are some really interesting scholarly articles and essays written about the influences and inspiration for Late Night with the Devil. There are a ton of interviews, like we mentioned, behind the scenes footage, and an interesting audio commentary, which I would say comments less on the film, but more on the cultural impact and cultural influences of the film. A lot of it is in my notes, and you would be just fine listening to us ramble on for an hour as opposed to them ramble on for 90 minutes. But if you're interested in having an archival quality copy of this movie, you cannot go wrong with the second sight release.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

I definitely think that you should check that out if you have the opportunity. But let's dive into this film and talk through it, and hopefully we can talk about some little nuggets that we've learned along the way.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Alright, so to kick things off, we see some news footage from the 70s specifically, and we see a lot of references to the satanic panic, to um murderers like Charles Manson, those sorts of elements, and we see that all play out through archival footage.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Archival footage and footage that they recorded in studio with an audience, and they only had that in-studio audience for two hours with the performers. So there was a lot of ad-libbing happening, there was some scripted stuff, but they really had to nail that quickly and efficiently because the audience was only there for one day on set and only had two hours with Jack and Gus to get that intro done. What I really like about the intro is that Michael Ironside of the Scanner's fame does the narration, and I think his voice is absolutely perfect for capturing that 70s voiceover or that document documentary voiceover feel. I think it really he really nails it with that voiceover and really sets us right off into the world of the piece. My big question though for this intro is the TV set, we're we're we're looking at an old CRT TV from the 70s. We we come in with that and the the TV lights up and we push in on that and then the montage takes over. Why are we on the set of uh night owls? Why are we wh who is filming this? Where did they get access to the set? Was this filmed shortly after the events of the film? When was this filmed? Did they reconstruct the set? I have so many questions about this, and I want to put a pin in this because the questions I have about the end of the movie tie right back into who is filming the opening shot of the movie when we zoom in and push in actually on that television.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yep, and and that last shot that we'll talk about later.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Um, so we also get to see how Jack gets his start in late night with night owls and his relationship with his wife, Madeline, who was a stage actress, and they have a sort of an ideal relationship and marriage from the outset to the outside. What it looks like.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Yeah, let's let's not get too deep into that right yet. But we do set up the grove, which is the cult aspect of this in this opening montage, that's set up immediately. We are we are right there.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah, I actually that was the next thing that I was gonna bring up with Jack's supposed ties to the Grove, and obviously I think the Bohemian Grove is what they were alluding to.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Yeah, yeah. I and and and listen, we're not gonna get into conspiracy theories in the Bohemian Grove here. That is a whole other podcast. But that you can't talk about this without saying that that is a major influence on this film and maybe the template for for what the Grove is. But we'll leave that for Brad Meltzer to uncover.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Um so then we see that Madeline is actually gonna get sick with lung cancer and she passes away.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yeah, Jack's on the air for four years before uh she gets sick and passes away. And then one year after, after being away for what, uh a month? A month. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Yeah, he comes back with suffering ratings, not doing very good. He was on the top of his game for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

He never caught Carson, though.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

He never caught Carson. It's it's a tough game to catch Carson.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Not even when he brought Madeline on two weeks before she died.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Yeah, that yeah, that's that's tough. But Sweeps Week is now upon us.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Halloween 1977. It's Sweeps Week, Halloween night.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

And that is the tape of the night that we are going to watch, as well as some behind the scenes footage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

And so what's interesting here is that we have the master copy of the filming of the Halloween spectacular, spook tacular uh on night owls. We also have never before seen behind the scenes footage, implying that as opposed to found footage, this is curated footage. This has been edited by someone, which is going to come into play with some bigger questions that the movie sets out to uh lay out for us. Namely, when we're dealing with this cult, if you witness the cult's rituals, you're then doing the bidding of Abraxis.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

So the editors have witnessed the cult's rituals. By watching this film, are by showing you this film, are they doing the bidding of Abraxis? And by watching this film, are you then left to be doing the bidding as well? And we'll talk more about that later. But I think that's a really valid question. Right at the outset, someone has watched this, someone has witnessed the rituals therein. And they've edited it and presented it to you. And so is that is them presenting it to you the bidding of a Braxis? Does Abraxis want you to see this movie?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

I think the answer might be yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

It might be. So we get started with the show, and the first thing that happens is Jack starts playing a little prank on Gus. I love their relationship so much. It is so wholesome and just it feels very, it feels like these men have known each other for a very long time.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

And and it's wild because they had very little rehearsal time. They couldn't afford rehearsal. They had a little bit with David Dust Malchin, and they had less with the rest of the cast. And they they've managed to develop these relationships very quickly, and they're very lived-in relationships. I have to just say that I love the music that they composed for Night Owls. Yes. It feels so freaking authentic and and true to the period. I feel like they could just like you could pull replace the Price's Right theme song with the music from Night Owls and it would work.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

I agree with you. I think that one of the things that I really loved about this movie when we first saw it is that it felt authentically 70s to me. And whenever I saw the trailer for it, before we even saw the movie in theaters, one of the things that I really was drawn to was the 70s aesthetic and how real it sort of felt to me.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

And there are reasons for that. The scenic designer worked on Countdown, the music show, like I mentioned, but they had a 1970s Italian dolly that they acquired somehow. So all the push-ins were were done on a dolly that was done used in that time. They weren't shooting on podium cameras, but they did have period lighting. So the studio was lit with these incandescent bulbs from the 70s, and they really did a lot of post-production work to give it that sort of look. And also the four by three aspect ratio when we're in studio watching the broadcast really helps. And watching it on a modern TV is a little bizarre because you know I remember back when I'm watching CRT TVs and you get a widescreen copy of a movie and you're really excited to see it the way it was theatrically intended, and you have the black bars at the top and bottom. Well, now you have black bars on the side, and it it does take you back to watching an old CRT TV in some ways, but it's also a little jarring to see a modern television with those black bars in the wrong spots. It was wild. But they did a lot to make this an authentic feeling film. And from the coloration on the uh the set, the the the coloration on the film itself. But what I really love is that the DP Matt Temple had gotten his start in television, and so he was like, if it looks like shit, you're doing it right. And so there's a ton of extra headroom on these shots. They're all center-framed, these push-ins look just so cheesy to a modern eye, but they're so authentic for how a live, chaotic television event would be filmed in the 70s.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Yeah, it just feels so authentic, and I love that opening monologue as well. David Desmalchin honestly gives a really incredible performance in this movie. He is the glue that holds this whole movie together.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah, I don't know that it would work the same, maybe not even as well, with another actor in that role. He really does a lot. But that's not to say that the actor playing Gus doesn't do a lot for him, especially in that opening monologue. And again, they only had that audience there for two hours to record all of the montage stuff, all of the opening monologue stuff, some of the Christu stuff as well, some of the Carmichael Haig stuff. They really nailed a lot of that down in two hours. The rest of it was just the directors play acting the movie for the audience to capture reactions. And they did it all in one day. Uh, but no, Gus is as an improv performer. His background, they found him in an advertisement for an improv troupe. They saw him, they saw his mustache, they saw his hair, and they said, That's probably our Gus. So they had him do a self-tape, and they're like, okay. And they bring him in for an audition, and it's better than the self-tape. And then they call him a week later and they say, You got the part. He never thought, it was his first film. He never thought he was gonna get this part, and he had shaved his mustache and shaved his head, and they were like, Oh no! And so luckily all of that grew back right before filming was to begin. But they found him as a uh relatively unknown in the film industry and brought him in because of his improvisational skills. And while he claims that most of the lines he says were written, I think it's the improv performer that listens that gives life to Gus because otherwise he would have been set-dressing, uh, and you would not necessarily feel for him, not only as the voice of reason and the audience's surrogate and the moral compass of the film, but that scene at the end, that pivotal scene in the movie, which if you've seen the movie, you know what I'm talking about, you wouldn't be nearly t as terrified.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, and he does feel so authentic as well, and it their relationship, I just really love it so much.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah, and we want to give a shout-out. It's Reese Otteri, I think his name is.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

I think, yes, I believe that that is correct. Um, but yeah, he is phenomenal. I cannot believe that that was his first film.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

And he landed an agent, and hopefully we see him in more films after this.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

I hope so, because he's so good.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

He's such an authentic, he seems like such an authentically good human being if you see him in interviews.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Yes. Um, but you did mention Christu, and Christu is actually our first guest. He is a psychic. Yeah. Uh, and he is going to have a little moment with one of the audience members.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yeah, and this moment was inspired by the amazing Creskin, which he was a a psychic as well. Um, and I'm not sure if this little moment, as heartfelt as it feels, is as heartfelt as it appears.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

I agree. And that is what one of the other characters that's gonna come in is gonna kind of shake that up a little bit. But first, we go to a commercial break.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

We don't have sponsors yet. We're not going to a commercial break here. You can keep listening.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

No, no. We go to a commercial break in the film.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

And what I love that they did with the commercial breaks in this film is we flipped black and white.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah. And that's again our editors intervening. We flipped not only the black and white, but uh a more traditional theatrical aspect ratio as well. So we know visually in two different ways that we're not watching the live broadcast and that this was thrown in to give continuity of runtime for this documentary that we're watching, but also to give us a little peek at some of the relationships behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

It's so interesting to me that our first episode was Martin. If you haven't listened to that, I definitely think that you should go back and listen to that. A movie that was from the 70s that also had this convention of flipping between color and black and white.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah, I didn't I didn't actually consider that until you're mentioning it now. Um Martin for a very different reason, uh that uh it's giving us flashbacks to a different time period or possibly an imagined set of events. Um this to give us a little bit more of a peek behind the curtain. I really appreciate when you watch the behind-the-scenes footage, these were done with a handheld camera with a crew running around the set, dodging other actors playing crew members, and mostly in one take. And if you don't know how impressive that is, then you know, just take my word for it. Uh, if you were on a film set and you can do something that is two to three minutes long in one take with a handheld camera, you're nailing it.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Honestly, I loved watching the behind-the-scenes footage because the choreography that everyone had to do, it's not just actors moving about the set, it's the extras. It's your cameraman, it's everybody involved with this production, and you have cameramen playing cameramen, like moving about, and it is just phenomenal what they were able to do with so little time.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

And throwing the complexity of the guy making the behind-the-scenes documentary with his camera, dodging the cameraman filming the behind-the-scenes segments, dodging the actors playing cameramen, there was a lot of chaos, but it's seamless. It's really well done. I know some folks had an issue with the behind-the-scenes footage, and the you know, this is supposed to be found footage why you're showing me behind-the-scenes footage, and I didn't have that issue at all. No, I understood that there was a convention of editors. Now we'll talk about maybe some issues that I have at the end of the film. And if you've seen the film, you probably can anticipate what my issues were gonna be. But we'll talk about that when we get there.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Yeah. But during this first commercial break, we hear that the network head is in the audience that night, and that is putting Jack on edge because it's sweeps week. He already knows that his ratings are suffering a little bit, and so he has to really put on a good show tonight.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah, there are possible advertisers in the audience. There's a lot of asses to kiss in this audience.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Um, and when we come back from our commercial break, we are introduced to our second guest.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

I think there's a big point that we want to talk about here, and that's that in Christ do's Oh, yes, go ahead. He not only gets a message for an audience member, he fails uh uh by uh by Carmichael Hegg, who we'll talk about in just a second. By Carmichael Hegg's count, he fails five times to land down Mr. Peterson, Peterman, and all of that nice fun stuff. He connects with these two women about their their lost son, their son who's passed on, but he also gets a message uh violently from Minnie. Minnie and a man, an unmarried man with a wedding ring, and Jack interprets that to be him because Minnie was his private nickname for Madeline. Right. And he is now unmarried, but still wears his wedding ring. Now, also, what I'd like to point out here is that there are audio and visual glitches that happen when he gets this message that we have not seen yet up until this point in the film. So there's some electrical interference that's happening on the tape, maybe over the actual in the camera. We don't know where it's coming from, and and it's just striking to me that we're starting to see some technical interferences which may or may not be supernatural, especially because this is an unfalsifiable uh sort of message from the other world. Unless you believe Carmichael Haig, who says that they set it all up beforehand. But Jack appears truly shaken in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

He does, he does. And speaking of Carmichael Haig, here he comes.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Played by Ian Bliss. Ian Bliss was supposed to be uh he was supposed to play that studio head you mentioned earlier. They called him up and said, Hey, we lost an actor, can you play Carmichael Hagg? And he had a weekend to prepare for this role, including all of the magic tricks, the prestidigitation, if you will, uh that he that that Carmichael the Conjurer does. So he had to learn visual magic, at least two tricks by my count, maybe more, and he had to prepare this role, and he thought to himself, can I do it? And he's like, you know what, why not? Let's give it a go. And he is phenomenal in this in this film. Uh I think you compared him to Bev Keene in Midnight Mask because you hated him so much and liked the actor so much at the same time. I had much less of an issue with Carmichael Haig. And in fact, it shocked me on the audio commentary when someone's like, Carmichael's not the villain. I'm like, was he ever the villain? Uh he he he is an antagonist, but not the villain of the piece by any measure.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah, I don't feel like Carmichael is ever truly the villain of this film. There are a lot of people that I think you could claim are the villains of this piece. Including our protagonists. I was gonna say, I can think of three off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

I would agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

And I think that Carmichael is probably in fourth place there. Um but he is nowhere near the top three of villains. He is a former magician, turned skeptic, and he is going to debunk Christu and possibly our third guest that is gonna be coming on. But Carmichael is he is very he's got a lot of bravado.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

And he is very arrogant. And I think that maybe that's why people think of him as the villain.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

Perhaps. I can see some other people being the villain. When we come back from that commercial break, we are left with an image of a skeleton on the um the sort of sl the sort of screen, the slide that that brings us back in. The welcome to night owls, we're left with a skeleton. And we push in on a skeleton guy in the audience. And sitting right behind him is a woman in a headscarf who is really evocative of Madeline. Uh and that skeleton guy is a presence throughout this film. That's another possible villain that as we see a little later on. He's a presence that's lurking throughout this whole film. There are a few of them. I think there's a devil guy. Yes. And there's a skelly guy. Uh and and and and honestly, it's just so striking to me that right behind him is a woman in a headscarf. Uh much like Madeline on her last appearance on the show.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

I know. Whenever I don't think that I ever caught that truly. on my first watch because I obviously wasn't a hundred percent sure what was going on and but the more you watch this film, I think the more you really gain from it. From it.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Even down to the fact that when Chris Due does receive that message from Minnie, his accent falls away. He has this very fake stage performer psychic accent that he's doing. Possibly Spanish. He sa he answers C at one point, but I don't think it's a solid accent from anywhere in Italian? I I have no it possibly I don't know what he's doing. But it's meant to seem exotic and he drops the accent whenever he gets that that electric glitch on the screen and the there's the there's the the message from Minnie. He is clearly faking it, which sets Carmichael up with plenty of ground to cover as a skeptic debunker.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yes and uh but Christu is obviously also unwell.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Obviously unwell as we will see after Carmichael presses him for a few moments uh offers him half a million dollars to prove that he's actually psychic we see Christu not feeling great.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

He is not feeling good.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

In fact he projectile vomits all over Carmichael's jacket yeah and Carmichael's dressed fabulously he has some of these crushed velvet jackets. Now the costume design in this movie is also extremely authentic to the period. The costume designer handmade a few of these pieces, thrifted and found vintage pieces Jack's suit was made to order and almost didn't arrive in time for filming which is just wild if you're doing a production and your lead actor has one costume for the whole runtime and it may not arrive in time. Carmichael's one of those actors who has two costumes for the runtime of the film because he has to change his jacket after Chris do projectile vomits what we're left to assume is blood.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Black goo is what it sort of looks like.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

It does look like black goo. And we'll talk about what that may be a little later on in this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Yes, yeah. And he's taken to the hospital because he's obviously very unwell. Yeah. So he's off to the hospital so we are down to just Carmichael.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Carmichael and Jack are well there are other guests scheduled. Correct. We have Clio and they can't cancel on Cleo again. They say we can't cancel on Clio again. Now honestly how many times have they canceled on this poor singer? Is it question that I have I know it's not one of the most pressing questions in the film but this poor singer has apparently been cancelled on multiple times. I feel so bad for her like we can't bump Clio again I have a note here it says again how many times is this is this a running joke is this going how long have they been bringing her on and cancelling on her?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Poor thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

I know it. And that brings us to Leo the producer.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah so we go to another commercial break where he says we can't bump Clio again.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Right. And and and Carmichael demands uh a PA U and snaps at her at her in his completely arrogant way. Yes. Bring me the red coat from my attache from my attache I believe he says attache I could be wrong yeah I'm pretty sure he does. Regardless we're left with Leo and Leo is an ambiguous character to me because I don't know what Leo wants. Does Leo want ratings? Is Leo just greedy for sponsors and to keep his job and his high paying producer job or is Leo part of the grove?

SPEAKER_00 25:19

See I sort of have deduced that he may be in on it with Jack.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

I'm not a hundred percent sure we have no solid evidence to put him in there.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

No.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

But his intense drive to and and again some of this depends on who Jack is talking to at the end of the film when he presses onward with re-watching the video feed and and the things with Lily who we'll meet in a minute. What I want to know is is Leo calling that off and and trying to bring on Clio?

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Or is Leo setting up this whole climactic confrontation that happens? And there's no solid answers here. It's left up to your interpretation but I will say that Leo is not the nicest guy.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

No and that's so funny there's so many unlikable people here right now that it's kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

In fact that's why I think Gus might be the audience surrogate and the moral compass because Gus does absolutely nothing wrong. Yeah except stick around.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah poor Gus.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Justice for Gus.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Seriously but during this commercial break speaking of the Grove Carmichael and Jack talk about the grove and Carmichael's like can you get me in?

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Well mainly because of the orgies but also for the social clout. And I was like I it's I love that Carmichael wants to join the Grove and of course he wants to be in the orgies is the notes that I have here.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah that outrageously the he mentions it twice and it's so funny to me every single time I hear it. I know it's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

And it makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Oh a hundred percent a hundred percent um and so when they come back uh they're about to come back from commercial we're still in our black and white behind the scenes and June who is our next guest Dr.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

June She's a parapsychologist yes parapsychologist she sees Jack and she tries to have a moment with him but they are back on air and this moment is loaded because this relationship is complex and not necessarily strictly professional. Correct and June has a lot riding on this both in terms of her own professional standing and her own obligation to Lily who is the guest that June is chaperoning onto the show.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Right. So let's introduce our next guests here. So Jack obviously introduces them in the film but we have June a parapsychologist who has worked with her patient Lily. Lily was the surviving member of a cult who worshipped Abraxis.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

So they all uh went out in a blaze of glory quite literally um I don't know how glorious it was well it it was a thing it was a blaze about cults um this kind of reminded me a little bit of the way that we've seen a lot of cults go out um heaven's gate comes to mind.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Waco um the branched Vidians in Jonestown as well but more most specifically Waco because they went out by burning their complex down.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

And we should sidebar here and talk about Abraxis because Abraxis is going to be the central figure moving throughout the rest of this film, either seen or unseen and driving all of the events from here on out.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Arguably all of the events from the time we pushed in on that CRT television in the first shot of the film.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Carl Jung, famous psychiatrist, uh disciple of Sigmund Freud who went off on his own, and was not afraid to get a little mystical with his psychiatry. Carl Jung views Abraxis as and I'm gonna read here, forgive me, a Gnostic deity, which Carmichael Haig also says and he says he's a great showman and I don't disagree with that, especially based on Jung's interpretation. This isn't a quote from Jung but a sort of a rundown of what Jung had said in the red book specifically and Seven Sermons to the dead if anyone's interested it's a great read. Abraxis is a Gnostic deity and a figure that transcends traditional duality of good and evil. He represents a powerful androgynous being that embodies the highest light and the deepest darkness, a force that encompasses both creation and destruction. Essentially Abraxis signifies the integration of the self, the unconscious, the uh the superconscious, the, the the greater unconscious and the shadow into that, you know, the the the whole integrated self. It's it's what you fail to see about yourself and what you see about yourself, your mask, your persona, your persona. I am not a psychiatrist and I'm certainly not a Union psychiatrist, although I have an armchair interest in the subject. But what that leads me to kind of get from this, at least in the context of our film, is that Abraxis Abraxis is the sort of nature of reality that you cannot see. Abraxis is the thing that transcends reality. David Foster Wallace's famous This is water lecture, abraxis is the water. You know, the the two fish swimming and the one fish says how's the water today and then the other fish says wait what's water? Abraxis is the water the thing that permeates you that surrounds you it's the it's it's the integration of light and darkness. And and does that make abraxis a demon? Yeah. Does that make a braxis uh ultimately a good thing too? Yeah but in this instance the people who are engaging with abraxis here are engaging in a very negative way sacrificing children in a ritual to Abraxis and everyone who witnesses these rituals then is forced to do abraxis's will. The danger with abraxis according to Carl Jung is that you can't see abraxis. You can't be aware of Abraxis. It's only a fully integrated person, a fully integrated self that can see Abraxis. So yeah, I think that little sidebar is relevant with the context for the rest of the film but in this for shorthand here we can just say he's a surrogate for the devil. He's a demon although June thinks maybe it's one of Abraxis's minions and that's how these things work. I after witnessing the events of the film do not believe we're dealing with a minion in any sense of the word we are dealing with the real deal here.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah I think that uh if this is a minion my goodness yeah I don't want to see what the big daddy looks like. Yeah yeah um but we also see footage of the cult um and we hear recordings of both June and Lily in their sessions.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Yeah and the cult is run by Xander Diabo.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

I love that name.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Well the name is inspired from uh Anton Xander Levey who invented Levayan Satanism. Notably though Levayan Satanism is not theistic. So they don't believe in a devil they believe in personal agency and the strong will survive and there's a whole um if you're interested in that uh there's a whole manifesto um but the satanic panic of the late 70s and early 80s would have you believe that Anton Levey was worshiping the devil quite literally and so using him as a surrogate or as an inspiration for Sandor Diabo makes perfect sense here. In fact a lot of this a lot of Lily's story that they're talking about with the with the book that Dr. June writes is inspired by Michelle Remembers which is the book that inspired the literal satanic panic in the United States and there was a similar satanic panic in Australia with the Mr. Bubbles case and the Mr. Bubbles controversy apparently a girl was possessed by Mr. Bubbles I'm old enough to remember when Mr. Bubbles was a bubble bath you know in the 80s we all had Mr. Bubbles but um apparently in Australia that was a very similar thing to the Michelle Remembers case and inspired the Australian satanic panic. So all of that is cultural context here for what we're about to get into in the film.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Correct and we're about to get into some things. Lily is a 13 year old girl who seems normal by appearance at least whenever we meet her however she looks very creepily into the camera.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

She looks like she wants attention she looks like she wants to be seen and I I'm not convinced that we're not dealing with Lily here and not Mr Wriggles who's the demon who possesses Lily. So that does bring up a big question as we progress into this film. When is Lily Lily? When is Lily under hypnosis or under a a sort of regr an age regression therapy that Dr. June is doing? And when is it Mr Wriggles speaking? And if we are in fact dealing with Lily at any point in this film does Lily want us to witness something?

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Is Lily doing the bidding of has Lily seen a ritual when she was raised in this cult? I mean like she was raised to be sacrificed.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Correct and so how much of that cult is still in her belief system And I have to wonder if the cult left her behind on purpose.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

That's uh an interesting question. You don't survive you don't survive Waco Texas unintentionally.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah um and we now cut to another commercial after they are introduced because they have a nice little package for them. So obviously we have to go to a commercial break. Now during that break June tells Jack that they should not do this with Lily because she's become unpredictable.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

She's become obsessed with Jack.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Correct uh and she has actually said his name when she's been in the fugue state.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Yeah. Now is this plausible deniability from June because June has every opportunity to stop this from happening and it would be a much shorter movie if she does. So we know that narratively speaking she has to press forward but what I want to know is does June have any intention of stopping this or is she just saying this out loud so she can feel like she has plausible deniability whenever the shit does hit the fan.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

I was also going to say that I think that it may be the plausible deniability but I also think that it has to do with her personal relationship with Jack and she knows how important this moment is to him.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

And to her. She has conversations with the devil her book she has that to sell.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Mm-hmm and so literal conversations with the devil right the title of the book yeah and so it this kind of sets us up for a lot of things. So now we see that Jack who m could have been the grieving widower has a new relationship.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Yeah which will be exposed very soon in a direct and sing-song y way.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Yeah but first um Jack is gonna find out that Christu uh did not make it to the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

She hemorrhaged in the ambulance on the way over which is why I believe that black substance was good old tummy blood. Yeah no one likes to you hate to see it.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Yep yeah um so Jack has to go back on air after learning that Christo has kicked the can.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Uh and when they come back Carmichael being Carmichael is a poo-pooing June left and right um he calls her parapsychology degree to the floor basically and says that she's not a real doctor. I I mean doctor not a doctor you know doctor not a doctor um when so we didn't talk about the theremin earlier. No we didn't but Gus at the beginning of the show plays this theremin.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Yeah and if you don't know what a theremin is it's that uh instrument that gives you that really 1950s like oo kind of vibe and I love it. If you're a fan of the TV show Hannibal Hannibal plays it and uh I love it even more. I keep trying to convince Sarah to let me get one but she says that we can't have a Theremon in the house because it will annoy her. But uh it's an instrument you don't touch. It's an electric based imp instrument. So it's all based on magnetic closeness to the instrument and you don't actually touch it to play it. So it would be uniquely susceptible to any electrical interferences.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Exactly and so when they're talking to Lily this theremin starts to play on its own go a little wonky we have glass breaking and everything goes a little haywire in this moment.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

We've seen some visual glitches up until this point but Carmichael has to go and intervene and unplug the theremin who what the it's always turn it off and then turn it back on. That's what you do.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

That's how you solve that's how you solve every single problem.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

But Carmichael goes and turns it off and does not turn it back on.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Correct um and uh Lily blames all of this on Mr. Wriggles.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Mr.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Wriggles who is the spirit that has possessed Lily previously and that June has been working to get out of Lily.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Yeah or at least have Lily remember a life before that through age regression therapy and and move forward past Mr. Wriggles. Although she does have some incantations or bindings on Mr. Wriggles that may or may not work uh the further she uses them.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah. But Jack really wants to meet Mr. Wriggles what could possibly go wrong?

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah they have a chair with uh bindings and restraints. What could go wrong?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

He convinces June to do a session live on air. I think that this moment is hilarious because this implies that they weren't already going to do this when they had the chair ready for Lily.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Right, absolutely it was completely planned. Although I don't think that was fully known to some of the crew because it seemed like Gus was quite surprised that there were restraints and rumors of restraints amongst the crew.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Right. Um June when they go to commercial she feels set up by Jack which again I I'm sorry but I feel like you knew what was gonna happen here.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

You absolutely knew you're coming to promote your book and and and to give a demonstration without the demonstration part how are you gonna promote your book?

SPEAKER_00 39:38

Right, exactly she knew but it's so interesting to me that she has this moment with Jack where she is like literally offended that he would even suggest that she do this session on hair.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

I'm like June get out of here now I've seen this movie a number of times but I will sidebar that this is when I had to use the restroom when we saw it in theaters. So uh yeah I did I that that little bit of context was lost on me in my first viewing but I've seen this film a number of times since.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Right. And like you said, Gus has a lot of trepidations moving forward. He wants nothing to do with this.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

And it's interesting because Jack tells him that if the devil shows up he has Jack's full permission to run out of the building and you almost wish that Gus would listen to him.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Seriously like Gus save yourself.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

He says you have my full permission to go for the exit and it's really great foreshadowing.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Yeah yeah so now this is where it gets meaty we come back from the break and now June is having a session with Lily.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Yeah with the mood lighting and everything.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Mood lighting and everything they were prepared for this.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

They dim the lights it's great.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

It is it's it's good television good theatrics. So Lily is is tied to the chair with the restraints and she is possessed by Mr. Wriggles. Mr.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Wriggles calls Jack out he says it's been a long time and we should also note that Lily's face visually changes here. Yes. Lily looks different and they did a lot of practical makeup on her to make this young actor appear possessed and so it it's very effective for everyone including Carmichael.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Yeah he is very stunned shocked surprised that this is all happening but I think he is still skeptical.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

A hundred percent skeptical and and and calls out the techniques that he believes are used after this uh possession scene is completed. Correct. But she says she knows Jack it's been a while since she's seen him last time she saw him was in the trees.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

The tall trees the tall trees so yes mentions the tall trees which we're not a hundred percent sure what that means.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Neither is June.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Correct. Miss Riggles also calls out Jack and June's relationship in a very uh real way.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Yeah so it's interesting to the tune of Jack and Jill and what I really like here that adds a touch of authenticity to the broadcast is when he says they were effing, they beep it the second time through.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

But not the first time because they didn't catch it.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah because they weren't expecting the profanity so they drop an F-bomb live on air the audience gasps and they beep it the second time through which just feels like such a good creative choice.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

I didn't catch it the first time that we saw the movie but I have rewatched it several times since and I did catch it upon rewatches.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Narratively it tells us as the audience at home in the real world what we need to know about that relationship and also narratively it just anchors in the authenticity of this being a fake or a a a real broadcast presented you know theatrically as a film. Yeah it it is it works very very well design team and from the directors.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Yes absolutely Lily starts to levitate yeah uh and that's when we see a lot of electricity surging in the studio.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Yeah so we know at this point that Abraxis or Mr Wriggles has let's say electric powers. Yeah uh uh uh he's an eel of some sort I don't know I don't know what's going on but we do know that he has electricity powers and that's how he manifests himself in our reality.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Right. Very interesting very interesting stuff. Then Lily comes back to herself.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

And then they obviously go to a commercial break.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

They ask her if she's okay she says a little embarrassed and uh they can't get the restraints undone.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

No. And so Jack has to take the dagger.

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Yeah the dagger that Carmichael fake stabbed himself with this is a dagger that Dr. June brought to the set that came from good old Xandor Diabo's cult.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Uh a da a dagger that mysteriously didn't burn up in this fire as well. So interesting so interesting that this survives as well. This was a sacrificial dagger that they used to sacrifice children with. And so this dagger is placed on the set. Uh Carmichael fake stabs himself, the audience freaks out, and he says, Yo, you're a suggestible lot, that's good to know. Interestingly enough, Carmichael would note something like that. But Jack takes this dagger and cuts the restraints and is is walking around the set waving it around, just casually, yeah, ha hanging onto a dagger. Outrageous. If you've ever been on a set of a film or if you've worked on a theatrical production and there is a live weapon, that thing is not casually touched. Uh the fact that nobody stopped Jack from doing that until they were like counting down to air is just outrageous to me as a as a theater director and producer.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

I know, I like saw that. He's so loosey-goosey.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Oh my gosh. Just wandering around, just like waving that thing around like it's a baton. I can't.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

One of my favorite parts of this commercial break, though, is Carmichael in the background trying to figure out how the chair levitated.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Yeah, oh my god, yeah. And and he was doing that earlier. He's going around to the audience members asking them if they were interviewed by Chris Doo. He's like just constantly lurking and debunking.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

He is so nosy.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

I love him. I mean, I love to hate him, but he is so funny. Like his characterizations are so good. It's crazy to me that he only had a weekend to like learn this whole role because he nailed it so so much.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Ian Bliss is an Australian national treasure, and David Desmalchin is our national treasure.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Indeed.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

The cast is so good.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

It's so good. Um and uh, but Jack also, while this is all happening, tells June that he's like, I just want you guys to come back on the show again.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

He tries to book them again.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

I was like, what are you doing, Jack?

SPEAKER_01 45:40

He's like, this is great. Our ratings are gonna be great. You gotta, we gotta make this a recurring bit.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

And June is like, what?

SPEAKER_01 45:46

This is super dangerous. We can't keep doing this to this girl. It's getting out of control. She knows things about you. What are the tall trees, Jack?

SPEAKER_00 45:52

What are the tall trees? That's like we would all love to know.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

And he's so nonchalant, but like, I I don't know. That's weird.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

And I'm like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Oh yeah, you totally know, brother. But like, honestly, it's belie it's almost believable. If you were in love with him, if you were with him in a romantic relationship, you would almost believe that he doesn't know what she's talking about.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Right. I think, honestly, whenever I first watched the movie, David Desmalchin is so convincing that I was like, oh, he doesn't know what she's talking about. And I'm like, oh, he's so good. He's such a good actor.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

His podcast is great too.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

I just love him so much.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Is it Grave Conversations?

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Yes, Grave Conversations.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Check that podcast out. After you finish listening to this episode, go check out Grave Conversations. He's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Um so Carmichael, while he's also trying to figure out how this all happened, he finds out that Christu is dead.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Yeah, he's a little thrown by that.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

He is. Gus tells him, because Gus is like really over this at this point.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Gus is like one thing left from leaving the set. And but here's the thing he's so loyal and such a good friend to Jack, and they've been working together for five years, and he sticks around because he's a good dude.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Yeah, yeah. And again, just for Gus.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Justice for Gus. The moral center, the the core values we should all embody are are the Gus values.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Right. And Leo comes up to Jack. He just rolled your eyes.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Leo, I can't with this dude. He gives me like that 70 show vibes, like a character that we don't necessarily like on that show. No. But yeah, it gives gives me like strong vibes.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

I understand.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Yeah, and that that makes it hard. But uh yeah, they find out that this is ratings gold.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

And and that they won't have to kiss the sponsor's ass. And that they won't have to beg to stay on the air because they are charting so high this evening specifically. And if they can keep this up and make this a recurring bit, the peop people are hungry for this.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Right. Um, and so when they come back from the break, Carmichael, he's ready. He is locked, loaded, and ready to debunk this whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Because he is 100% sure that June has employed hypnotism and conspired with Jack and the technicians to raise uh that chair for the levitation via theatrical means.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Yes. Um, so he is now going to debunk the entire thing.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

However, he needs a volunteer.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

And buckle up, this is the final act of the film, and it is a doozy. Some people say this is a slow burn film, and I am of the opinion that this thing, after the first 15 minutes, just puts its foot on the gas and doesn't get off. But it's subtle, it's insidious, like the devil. And if you are aware of all the flashes on screen uh of of characters, and if you're aware of uh things that you may not realize consciously, but subconsciously, if you're aware of the contextual history of what this is building towards, this is a very fast movie.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

But right now is when we get into overdrive.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

We you gotta buckle up.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

You gotta buckle up because it's it we if you thought those practical effects were good on Lily's face, we're about to go to practical effects heaven.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Honestly, some of these practical effects that that they have coming up, I think they did so well. Uh we watched the behind-the-scenes footage on our Blu-ray, and I was really impressed with the amount of practical that they were able to do with the budget that they had.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

And I was really impressed by Reese as Gus for being such a trooper, getting not only his face and head cast, but also his whole body in a shirtless cast that I don't know that I would be brave enough to do.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Yeah. Uh, but we're gonna get into that now. So um he uh Carmichael is going to hypnotize Gus.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Yes, Gus got voluntoled. Jack literally says, Do as you're told, Gus. In a way that it feels like such a betrayal of their friendship. Yes. Like uh that is the moment where I think Jack has fully stepped into villain territory for this film.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Maybe not that moment, but we'll find out more about why I don't think it's that moment. But this is the first time we see Jack's true colors.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Outside of just pressuring June, who has her own reasons for doing what she does, this is the first time Jack crosses the line for me.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

But I think at this point, he so badly wants to prove Carmichael wrong so that June can get that money from Carmichael that he is just being a complete dickhead.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

And also the ratings. If he can prove Carmichael wrong, then the ratings stay high and and we keep doing this.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Yeah. So Gus is reluctant, obviously, about this whole thing. And he hypnotizes him. He has Carmichael has the camera operators also go in on a close-up of his little watch.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

His contraption. Sew on the nose hypnotist watch. And they're displaying it on the studio screens, and there's studio monitors for Jack and June and Lily as well.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Right. Uh, and that is very important.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Uh very important.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Um, and so Carmichael goes in to hypnotize him, and Gus is really reluctant. He's like, Yeah, okay, yeah, you're the professional.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

And then Carmichael snaps his fingers, and Gus is under his control.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Yeah. And now we should know that they've now canceled the costume parade, so Skelly Guy and Devil Guy aren't gonna get to parade in their costumes.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

Yeah, I didn't even mention that.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

No, there was a costume parade scheduled this evening, and they have pushed it so that Carmichael can do his debunking.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Well, that's because they can't cancel a Clio again.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Well, no, they gotta we gotta get to Cleo. We have to save time for Cleo.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Um so Gus has this fear of worms.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

Vermophobia.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Vermophobia.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

I love it. Oh my god, I love the name. It's just so Germanic. Uh, vermophobia. I'm here for it. I did not know that word before seeing this, but when I heard it, I knew exactly what it was.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Yeah, so he's afraid of worms. Uh, and Carmichael knows this. And Gus starts to become very itchy. And uh there's specifically a nick on his neck.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

Well, he cut himself shaving that morning. Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

So and he pulls at it and he pulls a worm from it.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

And then he feels it down in his chest.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Very inside of him.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

And he rips that open.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Yeah, in a brilliant practical effect that is almost seamless. I mean, the the the neck stuff, once you've seen how it was done, you can kind of see the appliance on his neck, and you can kind of see that it's a body cast. But he had one shot at this. An actor who was doing improvisational theater, and again, it's different every night in improv, he had one shot at this take, and he nailed it. That was so gross in a purely psychological horror movie up until this point. Yeah. That was so gross and so shocking for me in the theater.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

So the next thing that happens is Carmichael is kind of surprised that he can't get Gus from out of the state that he's in at that point. He is still pulling those worms out, and then we have this crazy effect of this giant worm coming out of his eye.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

Well, first the eye pops out. If you catch that, oh, it's just nasty. And then this phallic-ass giant worm pops through. And phallic. To watch the special features, you can watch them with like a green stick, like a uh uh, and they're like poking it through, and they poke it all the way through until it falls out of the head. It's just wild. But it made me it made it made me realize how much planning went into that shot because they had to position Gus exactly where he would be against the backdrop. They everything is seamless. Everything is seamless. It's so nasty.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

Yeah, it's it it sure is. And um, but Carmichael is able to get Gus out of it.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Dreamer awake.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Dreamer awake.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

It's a huge point later in this film. We don't have much more to go, but later on it's a huge point.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

Yes. So the worms are gone.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

The worms are gone. Gus is sh uh ripped open shirt going, hey, when are we gonna start?

SPEAKER_00 53:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Doesn't remember a thing.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

And so they have to then say what just happened there.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

Everyone saw it. The studio audience saw it, Jack saw it, June saw it. Lily says, Why is Gus acting silly?

SPEAKER_00 54:02

Right. Which is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

I'm not sure Lily saw it.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

I don't think she don't think she did. Uh and we are gonna find out why.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Yeah. Only a few studio audience members didn't see it. There were two that Carmichael counts, because he says, I think I got most of you, and two he counts, didn't see it. But Jack certainly did, and Gus experienced it. And Gus is traumatized and embarrassed.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Which two do you think he was talking about?

SPEAKER_01 54:26

That's a very good point, Sarah. And a point I didn't consider until right now. But yeah, it might have been uh it might have been our Skelly guy and our devil guy hanging out in the background there, huh?

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Yes. So uh they are gonna rewatch the footage.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

But there's not a lot of time left. They definitely have to cancel this Halloween parade. Yeah. And and they gotta they only have five minutes to watch this footage until Cleo performs. Correct. It's very important.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

It's so important.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

So they they watch back the footage. And what do they see, Sarah?

SPEAKER_00 54:56

They see no worms.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

They see no worms. They see Carmichael narrating the feeling to Gus before what we saw. And Jack even says, that's not that's very different from what I remember.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

And Carmichael was able to hypnotize not only Gus.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Everyone.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Everyone in that audience and some of the viewers at home.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

He would suspect. Uh and and what's interesting about this is that is that then what we saw with the levitation and the face changing? Did Dr. June hypnotize everyone? She didn't have a cool watch.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

She was just talking to Lily.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

She was just regressing her. So is it possible that Dr. June hypnotized Lily?

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Well, so that's the thing. They could go back and watch the footage, but they're not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

So unfortunately, Jack has to make the very difficult decision to cancel on Cleo again and bring her back at another date.

SPEAKER_00 55:47

I don't think Cleo's coming back to the date.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

I'm pretty sure she's not coming back after the end of this. The film is open-ended, but I'm pretty sure she's not coming back.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

I'm pretty sure Cleo's probably grateful that they cut her at this point. Uh after everything that happened. But when they go back to watch June and Lily's footage, it's identical. It's identical.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

It's the same thing we as the viewer saw. There is no manipulation. Lily's face changes. Lily speaks in a different voice, and Lily levitates. But whose voice does she speak in at the end there? Minnie's voice.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

This brings up another question that we'll have when we get to our questions about the film section.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Well, so they actually slow down the footage.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

They do.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

And they are watching it in this very slow motion.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

There's a glitch and an anomaly that makes them slow down the footage because Jack sees something.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

He sees something. He sees.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

So Jack sees an apparition of Minnie with her hand on his shoulder. And yeah, kind of like that. And it's she's not, but she's not like the uh the woman in the head scarf in the audience.

SPEAKER_02 56:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

She is not corporeal. She's not present with us. She is a ghost. It's a full-on ghost. And if you have a careful eye, and I've not found all of the instances yet, you see her throughout the film in this apparition. And maybe along with the glitches, maybe not, but she's throughout this whole film hidden in plain sight.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

What I think is interesting is when they actually pull back on Jack whenever he's watching the footage, you actually catch a glimpse of her hand still on his shoulder. Like she has always been right there.

SPEAKER_01 57:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

Um I have some big questions.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

I have some big questions about this.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

Mmm. Do you want to talk about an hour doing that?

SPEAKER_01 57:36

Let's get into a question and answer section later.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Okay. So um so then that the electricity starts to surge again. Because that's the thing that we're that we're doing. Um and Lily then splits in half.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

Her head splits down the middle.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

And they did this with a practical effect, and the actor herself wearing a green screen head mask so that she was in there, able to control her body, with this cool appliance over her head that looks so real, and a little bit of VFX, a little bit of electricity VFX. But it looks great.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

It looks fantastic. And the first thing that we see, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

Poor Gus, instead of getting out of there like Jack gave him full permission to do, he stands up and tries to fight the devil. And she spins his head all the way around.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

All the w which is a callback to when Carmichael was gonna hypnotize him and Gus says that his wife likes his head on his shoulders. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

And also visually, uh we can't ign we can't not acknowledge the fact that the Exorcist, the most prominent possession movie, has such a prominent scene of a head spinning all the way around. It has to be a visual homage.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

Absolutely, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

But also Lily, as the demon, might just have a bit of a sense of humor.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

That could be it. Uh after that, she goes after June.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

Taking that necklace that June uses to bind and banish the demon as she tries to and pulls her back. Literally hangs her and slits her throat with that necklace in a cool stunt performance.

SPEAKER_00 59:07

Yes. She strikes Jack, and Jack goes back into the night owl's uh sign that's back there. The door. But he falls down. Um and then I think my favorite, my favorite of all of them.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

Carmichael saying, Lord of flies, I will do your bidding. And then offers him the check. Then offers him the check. He believes it. He's I got you. And the demon lights the check on fire and doesn't stop there, burns Carmichael to a crisp, but saves that sweet, crushed velvet jacket.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

That's so sweet of him.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Listen, that costume designer worked really hard on it.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

Even a Braxis wants to live in style.

SPEAKER_01 59:46

Honestly, I would wear that jacket. I'm not even lying.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

But the the the the check is probably one of my favorite moments.

SPEAKER_01 59:53

Well, offering to do the Lord of Flies bidding uh didn't do it, so maybe you want half a million dollars. In the 70s, that was a lot of money.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

That's true. That is true. So Um So then we we see that that Jack survives. He then is g goes backstage at the end of this, leaving Lily a braxis on stage, and our feed goes dead.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

And now this is where you might assume this is the end of the film.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

It could have been.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

It could have been.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

But we have a lot of unanswered questions, even more than I have in my notes. Uh we're taken into the mind of Jack, which a lot of people say is a deviation from the found footage style, and it it very well may be. But they mentioned that Jack there's a greater sacrifice to come, you know? And I wonder here, is the greater sacrifice that's to come Jack himself? Or will it be someone else? Is it is it Minnie?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

Who who is this greater sacrifice? Because the it's really I feel like this whole sequence is meant to destroy Jack specifically. Jack is destroyed by the end of this.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

And the line is Jack Delroy's greatest sacrifice is yet to come. And that's what we see when Jack is signing his deal.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

Which is the first thing we cut to, or one of the first thing we cut to after he goes through that door. They said, Jack, have you sacrificed enough to get here? And the studio head said, Jack Delroy's greatest sacrifice is yet to come.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

I think this is an example of the demon showing us all of Jack's dark secrets to destroy Jack himself. Jack is a sacrifice.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

But that's not the only sacrifice he encounters here.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:34

No, it's not. So, like you mentioned, whenever we go back into this, we go back into the studio, everybody laughing at Jack while he tries to do this monologue, and a very sinister guss, a very different guss than we are used to. Um and he relives all these past bits.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

Some of the scenes from the opening montage that we see uh are played out very differently, and Jack is spiraling and begging everyone to turn off their television.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

So the interesting thing that I think that this all sort of ends with before we get into that giant wheel that hypnotizes everybody is it ends with Madeline sick and on the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

Yeah, and and she says, What else aren't you remembering, Jack? And we do get to that giant um sort of prize wheel that turns into the hypnotism watch that Carmichael was using.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:23

And then we see Jack at that signing. Um and I think that this is where we sort of get the answer on what Jack sacrificed.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

We start to get into the the Grove and there's an owl figure. There's actually, interestingly enough, in the documentary that June shows when she's introducing Lily, an owl in Xander Diabo's house as well. So I'm left to wonder, is this cult of Abraxis the same cult that the Grove is engaged in?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

I would I would assume it is. We have to make that assumption.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:59

Right. I think it's all connected, and we do see Diablo uh show up with the owl figure, and we see our skelly friend.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

We see the skelly friend. He's been sinister and lurking this whole time.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

He has. Um we uh sort of see all of these people, and Jack has to drink from this. You don't want to do that. You don't want to do that that we assume. We can only assume what's in that cup.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

Probably it's probably blood. It's probably blood. It's probably blood. So but yeah, the this whole uh cult that he has joined up with has been shepherding this moment uh in this live broadcast, this chaotic television event. Uh and and we're starting to see how Jack is complicit in this, how he's responsible for this in one way or another. As maybe just the figurehead, but also someone who did something very specific, and that's he signed his name.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

He did. And he's drinking that from that cup, and then we see the doors open and we see Madeline in her hospital bed. On her deathbed.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

And she's dying. And the conversation that she has with Jack here leads us to believe that he has sacrificed her.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

It's fairly accusatory, although he claims he didn't know that that's how it was going to happen and it wasn't supposed to play out this way. But it's fairly accusatory on her end.

unknown 1:04:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

She never smoked and she has lung cancer.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

She seems very convinced that he signed his soul to the devil.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

And this is the byproduct at the very least, in in the generous version. It's a byproduct. And on the less generous version, he knew what he was doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

What I find so interesting in this scene in particular is that Jack never stops looking at the camera. He doesn't really look at her directly. He is always looking at the camera.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:55

And I think that that kind of shows to me that maybe his love for her couldn't survive his love of fame.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

Yeah. And keep in mind that this isn't how it played out in real life. This is how it plays out in his head right now when we're exposing his deepest, darkest uh secrets.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

And he did come back to work after a month of grieving. Yeah, he was. And he was messed up, but he wasn't that messed up in one of those ratings.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

Yeah. Um, and she asks him to kill her.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

Yeah. And so he takes that dagger that we saw before that's sitting on a conspicuously similar table to where he was sitting in the studio, and he ends her suffering with the dagger.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

But then we cut back to the studio.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

And it's actually Lily that Jack has stabbed, and he realizes what he's done, and he starts saying Dreamer Awake. And I wonder as the film is crazy. Craning up and the camera's craning up. Now, this this whole sequence has been in a standard aspect ratio, not in four by three, and not from the three-camera setup that they use to film the whole broadcast portion of the movie. They did it typically like you would do a three-camera setup in the 70s for a talk show. We're in a different mode and style of cinematography. We're in a different, we're having these angles on cranes. We have different cinematography. And most of this was filmed on nice cameras. Some of it was filmed on iPhones. Some of it was filmed on Super 8 when they were doing the cult footage outdoors in that sequence. But we're we're we we have less of that color um coloration. We have less of the filters applied to make it look like the 70s. It looks crisp, it looks modern when we're in Jack's head. But we're back to this studio and it still looks a little modern, and we're on a crane, and it's not one of those podium cameras. And so who is taking this video? I can buy that we've all been hypnotized by Abraxis and much more elegantly than than uh Carmichael was able to do. But I don't know once we come back to the studio and we see what Jack has done, who is filming this, who is showing us this, and is Abraxis now free and still and and electromagnetically broadcasting this studio image into our TV sets and onto the tape? Who is the one who's recording this? And that's the only gripe I have, but it's not a gripe because I think it's an open-ended question. There's no answer to it, so I can't be mad about it. But it's definitely something that I think a lot of people instinctively felt about the ending of this movie. And they applied it to that whole last sequence, which I don't mind, because if a Braxis can control electromagnetic waves, it it it can control what goes on in that tape. And if it just exposes Jack's heart and soul to that tape, so be it. I'll I'll suspend my disbelief. But if we're gonna come back to the studio and we're still gonna change that visual style, I I don't quite know. Is it is it a Braxis doing that? I don't know. And that's a big open-ended question for me. And probably one of the things before I sat with this film so extensively, I have seven pages of notes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:59

Um before I sat with this film so extensively, I I I had a bigger problem with the whole sort of coda of the movie. But now it's just the final the final shot that I'm I'm struggling with. And I I'm honestly, the more I talk about it, the more I think about it, the more notes I take, the more we're doing this podcast, the more I'm comfortable with it being a Braxis, literally imprinting on the physical magnetic tape.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:21

Right. I think that that's sort of where I'm left after this viewing is that it is a Braxis, it has been a Braxis. I kind of wonder if the narration, the beginning of the film, is another version of a Braxis. I don't know. I i I don't know. Yeah. We have a lot of questions and not a lot of answers.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:43

So anyone who witnesses a sacrifice to a Braxis is now in the service of Abraxis. So you, the viewer, in the world of this film are now in the service of a Braxis. The television viewer at home is now in this the the service of a Braxis. Everyone who witnessed this live. And by doing this podcast, perhaps we are propagating uh abraxis uh ourselves. Should we even be doing this? Uh, should we be releasing this? Now everyone is doing the will of a Braxis. We we by recording this are probably acting in service. Um but you know, I I really do think that it is a challenging film in that respect because they're asking you to suspend your disbelief. It's the it's the typical found footage issue.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

Which I say about a lot of films, and I think the one that's done it the most elegantly is the last exorcism because they foreshadow the ending so strongly they don't need to follow up after the cameras are cut off.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:38

You see what happens, you see the characters approaching their fate, the camera gets smashed, and you know from the foreshadowing what happens to them. Uh you can probably see in the shot there's a mic from the Blair Witch Project. Shout out to Art of Barcode. The Art of Barcode is fantastic, barcode is great. Um the Blair Witch Project has this issue as well, where we're left with a ton of ambiguity because there's no one left to operate the cameras. And in this film, either the s the crew has been killed or run off. Yeah. Or or left halfway through the production because a lot of the cameramen left halfway through the filming of this. We're left with no one to operate the cameras, and that is the found footage problem. Uh, and I'm not sure whether they solve it through a demon who's an electromagnetic demon, or whether we're left with just some artistic ending to this film, which is a statement from the directors. Um, and we're just supposed to abandon the construct and conceit of the found footageness of the film.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

Now, bear with me. This is something that I just thought of while you were talking. I was looking at you and I was like, hmm, what if it was the Skelly guy?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:43

The Skelly guy just grabbed the camera just grabbed the camera. That would have been perfect if they would have gone back to the three-camera setup with the podium scale. I know, I know. This is on a crane, and we're doing this cool elevation shot. I listen, I appreciate it. Honestly, I think, like I said, it would have been a better ending. We were when we were discussing this podcast, it would have been a better ending if they would gone back to one of the podium cameras or done like a shot from this one and then that one to close the film. It would have been a tighter, cleaner ending.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

But then what would we be talking about right now? Yeah. I think that we're still talking about this movie over a year later.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:15

And that ending is still an unresolved point for me. A few other themes of this film that we should probably talk about before we wrap this podcast up are the intimacy of television. About how when you're in a film, seeing a film in a theater, we're all together as a group. And what horror does very well in the theater.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

Seeing something getting scared together, it's a communal thing, it's primal. It's it's how we started telling scary stories, started probably telling any stories, which is around the campfire and warning of the dangers outside of what the light touches. Right. At night. Um, this is inviting it into your home. And that when we watched this at home, we watched it in theaters, but I think it plays differently at home.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

It does.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:56

Seeing this live would have been at home gathered around the television set as an event. Television supplanted radio as an event, a family event media device. And we have now taken television, which was a family event device. We there was one in a house. I mean, how many do we have in our house? Right. Too many.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

Too many.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:17

Um and we've we've replaced that with I watch a movie in my office, you watch a movie in your office, we come back together, we work on our separate channels. But moreover, most people are watching these things on their phones. And it is a it's a very much so a different sort of intimacy. Um, but we invite them into our house, we invite the demon into our house. The film as a media loop. We're watching TV about TV, about TV, and it's a sort of media loop. Uh, other themes that I'd like to touch on is the chaos of live TV events. That they that by their nature they are chaotic and unscripted and unplanned, and this one just happens to blow that 1970s model. I mean, I remember when I was younger there were TV events.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:56

Uh and maybe not live, some live. Yeah. Or just think about the Academy Awards, or uh, if you're theater kids like us, the Tony Awards every year. Yeah. The chaos of those live events. Oh, yeah. And that they are so high stakes and so high urgency, they're live.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:11

It's the perfect vehicle for a film of this nature.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:14

Well, and we've seen this kind of thing before with Ghost Watch, which was a live event in the UK, and we've seen it with WNUF, which takes a Halloween special that is very akin to uh a news broadcast, not the same as the late-night talk show. So I think that these programs sort of do well because it feels very authentic.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

Yeah, absolutely. It's really easy to replicate a narrative story in something that's so familiar to us. And and we what we've done with this is essentially taken Rosemary's baby and inverted it. We're we're looking at Guy. Uh he's Guy, right? Uh John Castavetis.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:59

I've it's been a while since I've watched this movie. We're looking at him who's made this Faustian bargain. He has sold his soul for success. And instead of following Rosemary's journey, we follow him and the toll that takes on him. And it is absolutely a Faustian bargain uh where, you know, the devil comes calling for his due at the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:18

Always.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:19

And it's it's and I like I said, I'm still not sure that that Jack Delroy isn't Jack Delroy's greatest sacrifice. I c I mean you can make the argument that it's Lily.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

You could make the argument that it's Minnie. But I am of the opinion, reading between the lines, that Jack Delroy's greatest sacrifice is his own destruction on live television.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:37

It's his own ego.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

Yeah, with the destruction of his entire brand, his personality, and him taking a life on camera, on TV, on his show, on his most successful night ever.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

Now, do you think that he also killed June, Carmichael, and Gus?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:53

I wrestled with this. Um I wrestled with this hard, and I don't I don't know. I I I don't think so. I think I think that what we see on the camera in the the the initial summoning of Mr. Wriggles was what we see. And Lily says, I don't think the TV cameras lie. And so I'm not sure that we can go down that rabbit hole. Because much like Book of Shadows, Blair Witch 2, uh thank you for calling it by its correct name. That is the I will put some respect on that movie's name because I don't think enough people like that movie and I don't I don't think they get what that movie's going for. And it's film lies and video doesn't. Yeah so when they play back the videotapes, they see what actually happened. And when we're watching the reenactment on film, that's lying. I don't think these TV cameras are lying. So I don't think you can say that. But what I do think they can be is manipulated by electromagnetic force. Uh and then lastly, the the pre-internet TV is mass communication. So this was the way we got our information and our news. And so to trust these people, to put a a a sense of parasocial relationship on these people, imagine the devastation that the people who were watching this the first time would have felt. And we, as surrogates for them watching it now, build relationships with Gus and with Jack, and the devastation you feel when you realize Jack sold his wife out, either willingly or unwillingly.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:14

Jack sold June out.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

Either by her own uh accompliceness or or complicity. Um and Jack killed a young girl, whether or not she put herself in the position to be killed because she was still of the occult of Abraxis or not remains to be seen. It's a loss of life and it's a tragedy. Jack Delroy self-destructs on television, and we had a parasocial relationship with him. And if this were real life, we would have trusted him and brought him into our home five nights a week, four nights a week.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:45

And and that is a huge theme of this film. Uh I think that the greed and fame chasing and the dangers and warnings against that are what really what this film is trying to talk about. It's much less about the devil and much more about the devil and the greed.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:00

The devil inside of you.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:01

Yeah, yeah. The late night with the devil. At the end of the day, while the devil does make an app actually the devil does make an appearance, a Braxis makes an appear an appearance.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:10

Who is the devil that we're spending late night with? Is it Jack? Late night with the devil. It's his show. It's his late night show. Late night with Conan O'Brien.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:17

Late night with the devil. Is Jack himself the devil?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:21

It's a very good question.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

And a very good place for us to end.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:24

We are so glad you joined us for this episode of the Dread Alert podcast. Please do subscribe if you haven't done so already. We release these episodes bi-weekly, and we also have some really great interview guests lined up to take uh those weeks in between and fill those up too, so you can expect a ton more content from us. We also do short form video and long form video daily on Dread Alert and on Sarah's channel.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:45

Spooky Families.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:46

You can follow us on this wonderful platform. You can follow us on the clock app and the photo app as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

And as always, stay spooky, my friends.