SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Dread Alert Podcast. Today I'm joined by Tim Casher, writer-director of Who's Watching, an innovative found footage film that I recommend you all check out. Tim's also the frontman of the band Cursive and the Good Life. Tim, you do a ton of different stuff. I'm so grateful that you joined us today. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm stoked. So, Who's Watching is the film, and found footage is one of my favorite subgenres. So I was really excited when you were going to join us here. Why don't you give us a quick summary? What's the film about?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Uh who's watching? Uh it's uh it's as as we'll probably discover as we're talk as we talk about it today, it's it's it's a tough, it's a tough film to talk about without really um letting all of the cats out of the bag. But um in short, it's uh it's uh about an unusual young man um at an in an office place in an office space who takes an interest in a uh young woman and decides to uh start filming. Um he creates a kind of a false documentary so that he can start filming her both in the workplace and out of the workplace. And uh it it it everything really unravels in a spectacular way.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah, I I will say it's absolutely a spectacular way that uh the climax of this film, without spoiling any of it, is one for the record books. I I was I was shocked, uh, I was intrigued, I was, yeah, there was a lot going on. Um definitely worth a watch. Uh you mentioned he's an interesting young man, and uh he plays in a band, uh, much like you do. I thought it was really interesting how realistic that band felt, hanging out with a lot of bands in my youth. I felt like that was a very authentic depiction of what when bands aren't playing and when they are, what band life is like. How much did you pull from your own lived experience when you were writing this?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Uh I mean, really, it's a pretty it's a pretty straightforward kind of uh, you know, the classic write what you know uh tech technique that I learned back in creative writing back in college, you know. Uh but it yeah, it is. It's a um it's a it's a scene that I'm comfortable, I feel really comfortable with because I've lived in it for um decades. Uh so I you know, I feel like I can handle the musician, what musicians are like. Uh I feel like I have the the um the the the the right uh you know resume for that. Uh but also uh I like to I want to populate the film with musicians because it gives me an excuse to bring more music into the story as well. So it's uh so it's kind of at least twofold the reasons, reasoning why I involved musicians. If I'm not mistaken, you did the music for this movie, correct? I did, and I had a such a blast. It's such a gift I feel like I give myself is when I get to write write music for uh a film.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

I I absolutely love the music. And I I think I I love all of your music. Uh frankly, I I'm a fan, but your lyrics are so vivid. I I really I mean specifically stuff on the good life, it's just really great lyrics. Do you find there's oh, certainly my pleasure. Do you find there's a huge difference between writing music, specifically lyrics, and writing for film? What how does your process differ between the two art forms?

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Uh so yeah, there's a big di the big difference really is uh is what we can all um we can all kind of you know see or w witness ourselves. But yeah, it's kind of nice sometimes just to to parse it and um you know talk about what those differences are. Uh for for music, it's uh I'm wanting to I'm wanting to tell bigger stories uh in song, uh, but you really have to figure out you have to say a lot in a line, you know, it's a different it's a different thing. So you have uh you have uh you only have so much meter, and and sometimes too, you're you're you're also trying to service the song itself. So so for instance, maybe somebody could uh could uh you know clap back at what I'm saying and be like, well, why don't you just uh if you're having a hard time fitting an entire story into a song, why don't you just stretch that song out? And it's like, well, people don't listen to half hour songs. You know, like that's like that's or in in all in or maybe it's like, well, don't worry about what people think. Well, it's like, well, how about you all I also want to serve the song, you know? Like there's there's you know, you have these chords and this and these these melodies, and they might be they might they may not be asking to be 10 minutes long. You know, like like the song and the the music itself is kind of like, you know, this song feels like it wants to be five minutes, and so it's like you gotta fit what you you know, you gotta fit your story in there. Um clearly when you get into um different forms of writing, such as screenwriting, um, there's a lot more room. There's a lot more room to be able to um build um, you know, you can then you now you're not now all of a sudden you're working with nuance and subtlety, and uh you can uh you can even like you even have more time, you know, for s for genre such as we're working on today, uh you even have more time to work on like you know, playful manipulation, which you know you can do in music as well, but again, you have a shorter, you know, it's a much smaller window that you have. So when I started screenwriting, um for me it was um it really helped open up my storytelling so I could tell um larger, more full stories, and then I could and then I can continue to write songs, um, tell stories and songs, but I can appreciate that um that there's uh it's a different approach. You know, you have to uh you have to you you kind of do like a more like a broad strokes with um storytelling um in song. That might that's probably fair to say. Um because you have to you have to you have to express a lot in them in a you know much much quicker, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

I also wonder whether screenwriting might feel a little bit more freeing because I noticed in Who's Watching, there is a lot of uh uncomfortable horror uh thriller aspects to the film, but there's a a surprising amount of humor in this movie. Uh did was that was that something that you uh explored as well, uh blending genre?

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Uh yeah, it's it's it was it's so unintentional. I it really just I think it really just comes the the humor in this film, in the script, it was really just natural. Uh I I it w it hasn't been until I've been, you know, I've been doing a um a lot of advanced screenings uh over this past month. So um this is the first time that um you know in even in conversations such as this, because you know, the film's not actually out yet, as per this conversation anyway. Uh so I'm learning um that it's funny. And uh and I and I'm taking it, and I take it as a huge compliment, you know. It's uh it's it's great. Uh I certainly there are, you know, for anybody who wants to, you know, break down the the film, certainly there's intentional jokes here and there. And uh and I've been in screenings where some of the jokes I put in don't actually land. I'm like, oh that's you know, like that's okay. Uh but there's a lot of other stuff that I kind of can I consider to be just kind of natural storytelling that um that also naturally have humor in it because I think there's just humor. I think it's just realist realism. I think that there's I think that we all carry, we aren't, you know, we don't we aren't stern and serious people as as a as as a human, as a race of people, you know. Uh I think that we just carry a lot of humor with us. And um, so I think whenever in any given scene, um I'll let I'll let uh humor kind of rise to the top because I think it's only natural. Um but it's been really nice. It's been nice to see uh that that humor is um found uh it's is also a part of the story.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Well, it's I mean humor and horror are incredibly linked. It's it's the surprise aspect of the joke, and it's the surprise aspect of the horror in a lot of the times. But I think for both of that to both things to work, you have to care about the characters, which I think you've done masterfully here. Thank you. Yeah, and what's interesting to me is that our lead character, and I hope this isn't a spoiler, is so detestable that I was surprised that I cared about him. I was surprised that I was even empathizing at all. Um, did you have an approach to either writing or directing that performance to get us to that point?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

I'm glad that you brought that up specifically because uh Zachary Ray Sherman, uh, he plays the role of Caleb, that you of which you speak. Uh he's just a he's an incredible actor. Um, and he's also um, and then saying this to all you filmmakers out there, um, he's an incredible collaborator. So he was so great to work with. Uh, we worked so much, we worked for so much and and for so long on Caleb, on the character of Caleb. Uh, just uh texts and email threads, um, for well over a year before we even got into production. Uh Zachary just wants to get he wants to get into the character, he wants to understand the character, and that helps me understand the character more too. So Caleb's so fleshed out, and I have I have Zachary to thank for that because um, for one, because he embodied him. So I really he really needs to, he really takes ownership of that great performance, you know. Uh but also I pr I appreciate that uh Zachary kept pushing the you know the ideas of like, well, what who what is Caleb about? What's the all you know, what's his story? Um, but one of the things we specifically worked on at length was um how do we uh how do we create empathy for a detestable character? Uh Zachary, um it's great to talk to him about it because he likes to talk about what any I think what any great actor does, which is if you're playing an antagonist, you cannot look at them as an antagonist. They have to be a you have to look at them as like what's the what's good about this person, what's the good in this person? And you have to figure you have to figure because you have to figure out your motivation. And your motivation can't be, I want to go kick a dog, because that's just not that's just not what people do. People think dogs are really cute, you know. Uh so so you know, we just worked a lot on um because we wanted to, and for me as the director, as the in the you know, kind of the storyteller, I wanted to work on um that empathy a lot because I see it as a as I've seen it all along as a playful manipulation. I think that especially in genre, I think playful manipulation is awesome. Um that's just it's just part of it's just kind of having a little bit of fun with um um with uh with the with the uh film goers' expectations, you know. Uh and so uh yeah, I enjoy um I enjoyed playing with people's um you know frustration of like why is it that this guy is clearly detestable is the word that you used, you know. He's clearly detestable, but why am I um why do I find myself oddly like rooting for him in the you know uh but you but you don't root for him to succeed, you root for him to stop.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

A hundred percent. And I also found myself, yes, you root for him to stop. I just want to make that very clear to our listeners. If you've seen this movie, I I was rooting for him to stop. Yes, yeah. But I found it so challenging that I saw any part of myself reflected in him, just as a human being who feels a little awkward sometimes, or as somebody who tries to fit into the corporate workplace, or somebody who has artistic inclinations and is trying to leverage that for self-actualization in some weird, twisted way. I I just it was a very challenging aspect of this film for me personally that I found any sort of empathy with him.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yeah, no, it's a weird thing. And so, yeah, and that was just and that's kind of like that, you know, that age-old trick is that we just wanted to humanize him. We wanted to humanize him and kind of remind everybody that like even though he's doing some pretty dastardly things here, uh he doesn't see it that way, you know, and so then you start to feel then you start feeling a little you then you're like, why am I feeling bad for this guy? You know?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

For sure, for sure. Uh, and this this is not your first film. You have uh previous film, it was a drama film. I've not seen it. I gotta check it out now, uh, because I'm a fan of your films as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

My question is, what drew you to the horror genre?

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Uh I've just, you know, I've always been there. Uh I so uh yeah, so the last film I made, the only other film I made is called No Resolution, is currently not um picked, it's currently doesn't have a distributor, so I just kind of have it shelved at the moment, but I'm hoping to bring it back out for interested people to see. Uh uh and that's a drama, because I also I also love drama, uh I also love drama. That was um uh I I consider that film to be uh my Mike Lee phase. I don't know if you're you might not be familiar with Mike Lee, but he's an excellent, um, excellent but quieter uh British filmmaker. He's his big films are like Happy Go Lucky and Um Naked was a big point of his uh Secrets and Lies. But they're all very uh very drama, uh very um dialogue-based drama. I I think he's excellent. And I kind of was chasing that with No Resolution, which is a very small movie that we made in our shot in our apartment. And that's some of the reason why uh, you know, low budget is some of the reason making something low budget was some of the reason why it was a drama, because it was something quiet and small we could do. Uh but I frankly, uh like this uh Who's Watching script I wrote before No Resolution. I've had it, I I've just it's a script I've had for I have a decent amount of scripts and and uh this is one that I wrote uh while back uh and I dusted it off um just shortly after no resolution, actually. Uh uh and uh started looking at it again. So in my yeah, like in my you know back pocket of scripts, I have I don't know, I'd have to go through and and count, but uh you know, it I it seems like maybe about half of them are probably genre of horror and thriller scripts. So it's just I love that I I you know I like uh it's kind of like with my music too. I like to do weirder stuff and more aggressive stuff with cursive, but I also like to do uh poppier and lighter stuff with the good life.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah. And I just not to not to gush too much, but I really love that contrast between your two bands. I I really love both sounds, and uh I was I was I was surprised uh that it was the same creative force behind them both because they are so distinct and uh it's good stuff. Yeah. Um I guess my question is since you're a horror fan, since you have a lot of horror scripts, and since you've made a drama film prior to this, do you have any challenges that emerged while working in found footage? It's a very unique subgenre. Was there anything specifically challenging?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

I uh um geez, challenging uh I I I'm gonna answer it in a different way. I should answer, I should answer on what the the challenges are. But instead I'm gonna respond by offering that um, you know, I didn't go to I didn't go to um film school. I think I would have gone to film school. I went I finished um I finished college in the University of Nebraska in Lincoln. Uh so UNL. It's a I'm a husker. Um uh uh at the time, at the time, uh they they have a pretty strong film school there now. Uh it's called it's the Johnny Carson building they built. Um Johnny Carson's from Nebraska. Uh in so they have a pretty strong film school there now, but they didn't when I was going. Uh, but they were building it. Or I mean I think it was kind of it was on its way, things were bubbling. And so I had so I had the opportunity to take, I finished in creative writing, uh, English and creative writing. Uh but I was able to take some film courses, film courses because they were available. They just didn't have a whole department. Wow, all that is just to say that I one of them I took was um a documentary course that really stayed with me. Um I guess I'm just kind of, you know, for the for those as far as you know, all the arguments of like, oh, to film school or not to film school, I will say that no, I didn't have the opportunity to go to film school, but even just this one documentary course I took has stayed with me my whole life. Uh and was is important, it was important. It uh it's important for the it really taught me a lot for how to view um how films are made, about objectivity and subject subjectivity, which is so important in document documentary filmmaking. Uh and when I think about found footage movies, I think about document that documentary course all the time. Because there are rules that should be followed. That in its and it's in its rules, it's um it's ethics. You know, it's like there's like a documentarian is a documentarian is a journalist, and that comes with a code of ethics uh that are important to follow. And I think it's good to apply that to your found footage films as well. If you're making something that uh, you know, it's because you because you want um, I want the the viewer to be on my side, you know, and and and to make sure that one of the ways you make sure that a viewer is on your side is you don't want to um I know I talked about manipulation earlier, which I think is playful, but um you don't want to like um you don't want to lose their trust by um by doing something incorrect. And sometimes that can be about breaking those code of ethics, those rules of ethics, you know, um as as far as about objectivity and stuff. Uh but yeah, you know, it just kind of taught me um a lot. I you know you know, like there's uh in when you get into found footage films, uh I can be so yeah, I bet you're similar since you're a big fan. Um I can get so frustrated with uh I mean it I get really annoying and really annoying actually to watch movies with sometimes because when I'm watching found footage type stuff and I feel like they're not they're not respecting it, you know, as far as uh like why is this camera like we need reasons for why the camera's on. You know, there's like a lot of there's a lot of rules that have to be that you have to be that you have to follow. Uh one that's coming to mind that maybe I shouldn't bring it up because it's not I don't have the specifics on it, but I will just say that I'm I'm still like an I'm still a fan of M. Night Shyamalan. I think he just he he he I know that there's I know it ebbs and flows and there's some great stuff he's done, you know. But I think that he's I think that at the at his heart he's always wanting to entertain us and I really appreciate that. Yeah, one of his great movies um is The Visit. Do you recall that one? Yeah. So that's his big found footage film, right? Um I think he did a really poor job at the found footage part of it. I thought but I think that is I think the movie's um wildly entertaining, and it's another one of his great twists, you know. Yeah, but uh, but uh that movie that movie has some problems with this as far as like it, it doesn't uh it doesn't feel like a found footage film to me. It feels like somebody's trying to make one, which is kind of a crazy thing to say about somebody as uh masterful as M. M. Shamalan, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

But yeah, for sure. What I liked about who's watching is that it uh I would classify it as a subgenre of found footage as the mockumentary style found footage. Yeah, which yeah, and gave you an opportunity to have uh title cards and animations, which I found wildly funny, um, and diegetic music, where uh and that's something that I think found footage struggles with how to score it like a movie uh and have a reason that's justified in the in the world. And I think that was just masterfully done. Um was that always the plan? I mean, did you always have this realized with all of the animations and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Uh, you know, some of that stuff developed after the fact. Um, but yeah, there are, I mean, I could we could walk through the movie and I could probably show you how I applied certain rules for every decision. Um because again, I just think it's so important. Uh for yeah, for you you bring up like like uh music and score. Uh there there are scenes in the movie where I felt I felt um score was needed, but then I had to think of the but then I had to think it's just like well where would that score come from? Yeah, like it's like and so you had to I had to like and so so there are a few um there are a few scenes in the movie where the score is from Caleb because he's the documentarian. This again, this you know, this is fiction for us, but for the movie, I had to think of it as it wasn't fiction, it was just I mean dealing with these characters, you know. Uh Caleb may is the filmmaker, and and that's the way I had to perceive it. That's the way I had to always had to see it that way is because I had to like filter my decisions through what I think Caleb would do. Yeah. And so one of those was the score. And so so since Caleb's a bass player, some of his score work, um, I always would have it be um starting with a bass guitar. So his so they're like bass, it'd basically it would be a bass riff that he would have written that then he puts some other like moody synth over. And I was like, yeah, that's to me that then you know that that checks my you know the a box for me of like, okay, I guess that's what his score would be like.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

That's so clever. I I I didn't catch that mentally. I'm sure that I caught that in my head.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

It's it's pretty subtle, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah, that's so clever. I love it. I also love the there's a handful of really great bass player jokes in this movie, which I I absolutely loved and appreciated. Um one thing about, and I'm I'm trying desperately to not spoil this, but there's something so interesting about this movie, and it happens at the climax. So I'm going to talk around how that's applied and talk about the broader principles of it, because I think it's worth noting. I I've directed for stage for a number of years, and the one thing I really loved to play with was audience complicit uh complicity. How are we making the audience a party to the criticisms that this piece is making? And I think this film deals with themes of. Of you know, heavy criticism of incel culture, of mass surveillance, of surveillance in general and the dangers of technology, some romantic paranoia in there as well. Um, and the audience becomes a party to it in an increasing way over the course of the film. I wonder if you have any thoughts on audience complicity or if what are you tr what you were trying to drive at with that climax? What what do you want the audience to leave with?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yeah, um you know, again, yeah, I guess uh since we're trying doing something spoiler-free, um, I I mean, I guess I would say that uh there I the the the different the wildly different directions that the movie goes into goes through in like the kind of like the last third of the film. Um I do you know I feel I'm I feel pretty confident that uh that uh that we're everyone's kind of in everyone's uh in the right in the correct seat at that point as far as the audience is concerned, you know? Yeah like we're all on the bus together. Uh in and so as far as the as far as that I know I I really appreciate what you're talking about about complicity because sometimes it can really um sometimes it can really sting, right? Like certain types of movies that we watch were like uh you know, a big uh film that I really love that's um that's certainly an influence on this is uh Funny Games, Michael Hanukkah's funny games. Um that's a that's kind of a heavy complicity that you really makes you really feel like shit as a uh as a viewer, you know, because they're kind of really, you know, he's really pointing the finger at us and being like, well, you're the ones watching this. So uh and and uh you know I like to play with that. I like to play with those, that kind of that level of complicity as well. But this, but in my opinion, I don't, you know, this this uh who's watching offers a lot of catharsis, and so um again, so I do feel like again, I know it sounds a little vague to people who haven't seen it, but I think that we're all on this proverbial bust together by the end. And so um, I think our complicity is uh is ethically sound, I suppose I'll say for for this film, but um, but not necessarily, um, certainly not halfway through the movie. Uh I have had a lot of feedback of people saying, like, whoa, there, you know, there was a while there where I was like, you know, I didn't know where this movie was gonna go, and um, I was getting pretty upset about it. Yeah, you know, and feeling in people kind of feeling like, I'm not sure if I want to finish this. And I tend it's one of the things I tend to say as far as trying to be spoiler-free, is I try I do try to tell people like it's not this movie's not a slow burn or anything like that. It's not it's not a slow burn type of movie, but despite that, I do say you just gotta stick with it. But I think it's the it's because it's yeah, because it's a bit of a roller coaster ride, and uh, and it's uh yeah, I I do feel like it's all worth it if you can if you can uh hold on.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah, we change you change tracks pretty clearly at a certain point in this film. And I I I like the idea of of retribution and catharsis, that's really uh well stated there. There are some films where I'm watching them and I I you feel dirty, and then and some films where maybe that's the point, but some films you feel dirty after watching and you wonder what was the intention of the filmmaker, you know? What what is he working through or she working through? Um I never felt that here. I I I always I I never questioned your intent, even in the throes of the um despicableness of Caleb. I never questioned your intent as the objective uh filmmaker.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

So I appreciate that. I have a lot of close friends who did not feel the same.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

So maybe I'm just desensitized after all the horror I've watched over the past few years.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Uh boy. So I I I think one thing I just want to touch on again is uh what struck me as interesting is you saying this was an older script, and and if I'm not mistaken, your your um No Resolution came out in 2017.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

I can't believe how timely this movie is with the rise of things like meta glasses and the surveillance state and flock cameras to pointing at a broader systemic issue as opposed to an individualized issue. I can't believe how timely it is having been written prior to that.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

It's uh it's wild. I'll really, it's wild to for me as well. Um it's unfortunate for us as a society. It's like that definitely definitely bad news for us as a society. Um but if we're just speaking solely about this movie, uh yeah, I've really been going on that's I've really been on um on a to these roller coasters again on a bit of a ride with this script because uh yeah, to to go into that a little more. I first wrote the script in 2010, all the way back in 2010. That's when I first came up with the idea. Uh and I felt uh and so at the time found footage um uh a lot of articles were talking about found footage fatigue. That was the term that that was given. And uh and it had me thinking about found footage and about um I I came up with these I with these kind of core ideas of um what this of what this of what would eventually become who's watching. And uh realized that these ideas hadn't really been explored in a way that I had in a way that I had seen in in found footage films and and I even continued and then and then I did research and uh and and I really don't want to suggest that it's a so uh a like a soul, you know, in such an ingenious inventive un untold story. I don't want to suggest that at all. But I will say that that I I chose to I I was like, I think I really need to write this down back in 2010 because um the idea excited me and I felt like I hadn't um experienced it in as far as my own viewing of fountain footage movies. Uh and so I wrote it down and uh it was a pretty pretty threadbare that first version, like 60 pages. Uh and I kind of said and I and I I I showed it to a few people, and I set it aside. It just wasn't really what I was gonna chase at that moment. Uh and then in and then after No Resolution uh came out uh in 2018, uh I revisited it because it was eight years later, and I was like, wow, huh, no one's told this story yet. And then so that really got me things. So that really kind of got me thinking, like, oh man, maybe I should I should really, you know, maybe I really should be chasing this. Uh but back to the you the point you're making about technology and stuff, uh, you know, in 2018, I was like, oh, well, um, this still seems to be, it seems like we were, you know, it's still uh still feels relevant. Uh but now we're so many years later in 2026, it actually seems even more relevant. So back to 2010, uh, you know, as far as all the surveillance ideas, uh, you know, uh iPhones were around, but they're pretty new. So that wasn't really a major part of the conversation, of my part of the story. I was uh in the script, I was using GoPros because that was those were more popular at the time. Uh in the script, I also I also kind of don't get don't put words on my mouth. I was gonna say that I invented metaglasses in a sense. Absolutely not. I even I remember even in 2010 going onto Amazon, and there were spy glasses, like these things existed, but they were real rudimentary, real junk store kind of things, I think. Yeah, metaglasses did not exist yet, that's for sure. Um, but now they do, and it's a problem, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yeah. And that's also pre-manosphere and pre-like coining the term incel and all of that stuff. So I the the whole film just felt extremely relevant and timely to me. And if it had been written or at least conceived early, I consider me floored because that's not something that we get a lot of.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Yeah, well, and I I should offer too that I mean the you know, the script of course evolved a lot, and and so one of the stages of its evolution is you know, there's a scene that we write the word incel into it, and well that that certainly wasn't in the first script in 2010. That I don't think I'd ever heard of that word. Probably I don't think anyone had until probably like the latter teens or something, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

But yeah. Uh yeah. But horror is such a great vehicle for working out what's bugging us as a society that we can't put into words and that we can't confront head on, or if we're trying to confront it head on, maybe we're not getting anywhere with it. Horror is a wonderful screen that we can project our fears onto. And so I just my compliments because it it really distills that out for a lot of people. And as a male viewer, I I it hit hard for me, but I can only imagine what a female viewer would say. I would like my wife to actually check this out once it releases on VOD on September 18th. So uh just changing gears a bit, these are some questions that we ask everyone who comes on the podcast. Uh, we like to ask about the genre that you're working in or the specific subgenre of horror, and we like to ask about horror broadly speaking. So what is your favorite found footage movie?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Yeah, um yeah, you know, I could uh you know, being put on the spot, uh it it's it's it's so easy to go to um to the uh absolute um classic that really started at all being Blair Witch Project. Um I mean it is just Yeah, it's you know, and and even my even just like my favorite uh uh horrors of all time, they tend to I tend to lean on like those stone cold classics, you know, like Exorcist and the Shining. Sometimes things just cut through for a reason. But uh I wanted to ask you, like what are some of the like again, just like on the spot in the moment, what are the some of the what are some of the uh found footage movies that I'm that I'm sleeping on? Like what are some of your favorites?

SPEAKER_01 31:59

So I really liked Host from 2020.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yeah, Host was a cool movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Yeah, uh really tight, 60 minutes in and out, and nothing is no fat to trim. Uh I really like Lookie Lou, which is probably an excellent uh double feature with who's watching.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Oh, I don't know if you're I'll just I'll just see it. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

It's uh a serial killer who is a stock, he's a stalker, and he starts escalating uh his activities to the point of murder. And he's making a film while he does it, not as polished as Caleb's documentary. Um, and I will say that uh Lookie Lou, I I love the filmmakers, they're great. Don't hate me for saying this, has a distinct lack of humor. I mean, it is it is uncomfortable. Um but Lookie Lou and its sequel, which hasn't been released yet. I saw at a film festival, Lookie Lou Part 2 is great. I really enjoyed uh if you like cryptids, I really enjoyed Frogman and its sequel, which is due out soon, Frogman Returns, is just as fantastic and ten times over the top. Great.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Um I'm familiar with Frogman, but I have not seen it yet.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

I need to catch up with that. It's it's a wild movie and it has a lot of heart. And uh deep down I'm a cryptid fan, so you know, but those are some that jump to mind. I'm sure I'm leaving, and and I'm sure there are filmmakers out there who are gonna be like, What are you doing, man? But I'm sure I'm leaving some out. But those are just some of the ones that jump to mind. I actually went out and bought host for my physical media collection recently because um cool we're expanding, and I was like, that's one that I need on the shelf to ensure that I never lose access to.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

So I'm trying to think of like, isn't like Lake Mongo is like a is that a popular uh found.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Lake Mungo's fantastic. That speaking of uh surprising twists and found footage, but I I can't I can't hide from Blair Witch Project. It was, I mean, I was there opening weekend in 1999. I thought I was gonna be the one. Um it had already broke that it was fake, but I thought I was gonna be the one to solve the mystery and that maybe it was still real. And the only tattoo I have is uh is a Blair Witch stick man right here, which was blessed by Eduardo Sanchez at a horror convention. It was like, Eduardo, should I get this tattoo? He's like, I'll wave my licensing fee, get the tattoo.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

And so I had to get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I love remembering, I love reminiscing on um, you know, the month that Blair Witch came out because uh I also, me and my friends, uh, we were on tour. Uh we understood that all the hype was not that all the that you know, we understood that the internet was like playing a game and kind of like building up this thing, but it was so effective, it was so strong and so effective that even when we saw it, even though we could say, Oh, it's not real, there was still it was still that that it was already planted in your head that just like where is it? You know, like like it's like I knew it wasn't real, but it's like also it felt so real that maybe it's a little bit real.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Yeah, and the the world building there was just I I I don't I don't think it could happen at any other time in history than when it did happen in that like yeah, early phase internet.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

But yeah, people people complain people complain about the shaky cameras and stuff like that, but it's like that's a lot of the magic that made us confused about you know, it's like, oh, this is in movie theaters, how can this be in theaters?

SPEAKER_01 35:07

It must be real. You're right. And and honestly, some of that shaky camera work led to uh, you know, they they were gonna have a guy in white long johns running through the woods, and Heather missed it. And that helped the film uh as a happy accident. Like they didn't get the coverage, they never went and reshot it, and we never get to see the witch, and I think that's why it works. So yeah, yeah. My wife is gonna be so mad when she listens to this podcast episode, she's gonna be like, that guy drags me to the woods once every year or two to go look at a rock. And I I get motion sickness from this film, and I have to go to Berkett's Villy once every two years or so. So but sorry, shout out to Sarah. Love you. Uh thanks for coming to the woods with me. Um, but uh speaking of the Stone Cold classics, though, uh, do you have a favorite horror movie?

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Sure. And uh yeah, and you know, they always change. So yeah, I already said kind of a shining and exorcist and Rosemary's Baby is really up there for me. Um I uh uh you know, I also don't want to dis you know, there's like modern too. I love modern horror. So it's not just that's the classics. Uh a love it follows that movies and I and I and I took and I took uh influence the who's watching takes influence from that as well. Uh uh The Witch, you know, or Eggers First, you know, that was that was really that changed a lot of things. Uh but for right now, um, I'm as far as like you know, we think we all kind of like waffle um with our favorites. But I'll go with um I've been kind of going with an American Werewolf in London lately, as far as as far as my one of my favorites, but I'll just say it's my favorite today.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

We've never had that answer on this show. Uh The Shining, The Exorcist, probably the two most popular answers. Alien or Aliens is a long-running debate on this show. But an American werewolf in London is a first-time answer and a solid, solid pick.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Okay, right on. Absolutely. Uh I really appreciate the Alien and Aliens debate. I was just asked that the other day. I had to go with Alien, the first I with was much it's it's not an easy answer. That's why it's really such a good good question. But I'm currently going with the original Alien, mostly because of the hype around their um around their uh what 45th anniversary, is that what it was? Um to see when Alien Romulus was coming out, um, and they put it back in theaters, and I went back to the theaters, saw it on, saw it on the big screen for the first time, and it really hadn't made its impact. I was like, what a gorgeous film. What in a gorgeous, gorgeous and important horror movie.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

I agree. Uh I like it. I I I I side with you. Alien is probably my favorite of the two. Um I like it because it's a slasher in outer space. I and that's uh it's a cut and dried slasher movie. And I'll say the same thing about The Terminator. Uh, it is a sci-fi slasher, and um I don't know. My tastes have been changing in horror lately. I think that probably Jallo is my favorite subgenre at the moment. But it for a long time I was a uh just a cut and dried slasher guy, found footage is coming in there right behind it. But um, I don't know, the more you see, the more you're looking for like the weird things, and and and Jallo never ceases to amaze me with the weird things.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

So oh man, that reminds me. Wow, just you just as you I just remembered another one of my absolutely favorite. Uh uh, and maybe I'll I'll throw this in front of Blair Witch, even though we all recognize Blair Witch really is yeah the the once in feature king of these of of uh of found footage. Uh but uh paranormal activity three.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Oh, yeah, I've never seen that one. I've only seen the first film. Um my wife, again, not a found footage fan, so it was always difficult for us to align. But uh maybe I'll have to go back and give those some love. I know. It's playing on Broadway right now, which is just wild. Is that there's a Broadway production of a I've seen it.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Oh, you did oh my god, is it good? It's really good. Um, the entire I saw it, I saw it out here in LA, and uh the entire audience. I mean, there are a couple jump scares in there where the entire where they get the entire audience. It was really a fun experience. The entire audience jumped like in unison, and then we all started laughing just because we were so sh not that we weren't laughing, we were laughing at one another and laughing at like kind of like the joy of like holy crap, a stage, a stage presentation just like made all of us jump. It would be great, it was a really fun experience. But yeah, I'm gonna say something. I'm sorry, I'm interrupting you, but I encourage you to watch paranormal two and three. Uh, all you listen out there, I think the paranormal activity, it's not a don't sleep on those first three, they're real good.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

It's gonna be on my watch list. That's why I love these conversations. I always add to my watch list after them. Yeah, but I I'm gonna go and say something controversial and say that I think the 2020s might be the best decade for horror since the 1980s. Uh when I was producing theater, we were doing horror shows. We were doing um uh sort of Tales from the Crypt Anthology written by Roberto Aguilar Sacasa or an adaptation of the birds or this weird zombie play written by James Rode Rodriguez from USA Psych and many other things. But uh it never had the kind of the the I mean we would draw out horror people to come and see it, but the theater people weren't coming. And now with an adaptation of The Exorcist and Paranormal Activity, it's just I I I I'm thrilled to see it even hitting live theater, and I'm just so grateful to be a part of this community at the time that I am and to talk to excellent people like you. Um thank you for being here. Sure, man. Happy to be here. So when and where can people check out who's watching?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Uh yeah, it's um coming out so soon. Um September 18th uh is its is its official release date. So uh they're doing uh yeah, so we did a we did a rollout of advanced screenings kind of around the country through August and uh doing them this week as well, Portland and Seattle this week. Uh but yeah, it's coming out in both New York and LA uh September eighteenth, September 18th, and also same day uh video on demand. So available to rent uh wherever you rent movies.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

That's fantastic. Uh where can people follow you if they so desire?

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Uh easiest is uh and probably the most vocal on um on Instagram, I guess. Uh which is Tim Casher. Uh Casher with a K. Uh and also uh you can kind of keep an eye on who's watching through Dark Sky Films. Dark Sky Films um has a uh dedicated page for who's watching.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

They do a great job. Uh one of my favorite distributors. Excellent stuff. And last question, if you can share, what are you working on next, either musically or uh cinematically?

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Yeah, um, yeah, I have a I have a uh I have a uh solo album kind of like already already already written. I'm just trying to find a minute to uh to uh record it. Uh cursive is um cursive is dedicated to doing another another album. Um we just need to get it started. We haven't started it yet. But we're doing cursive doing some touring next spring. Uh yeah, and then you know for filmmaking, it's uh it's uh it's always the there tends to be a big question mark there, you know. I uh uh as any as as most Sydney filmmaker will say, it's just like the goal of of of making a film is uh is hoping that it does well enough that you can make another film. So so uh uh so yeah, I have the scripts ready and uh and uh I certainly want to get back into production with something else. Uh I have um I have a couple scripts that I'm actively um you know pursuing, and one of them is a werewolf werewolf script. So awesome. Love werewolves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

I think now is a good time for werewolves. I uh not to drag us back into an intellectual conversation about horror, but I think the old school monsters have a really great place right now. Vampires can be used as such a great metaphor for sucking the wealth out of communities and Frankenstein's monster in the rise of AI, what does it mean to be human? Werewolves are such a varied metaphor that you could do a lot of different things with. I'd love to see your take on it.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

It's just like we're just animals, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Uh yeah, I I uh I often will, and I think that I think anyone who's working in these creative fields uh, but anyway, for me for me, I'll say that I'm often um trying to play the, you know, play with the idea of like, well, why why vampire? Why a werewolf? Why don't you come up with the new? Why don't you come up with a new beast, a new monster? And uh whenever I'm working on that, uh I tend to lean back on these ones that are tried and true because it's uh because they already have these like uh rules established, and and uh and I and I just and I love them, I'm reverent, I'm reverent to them, and it's not the right answer, it's just kind of how I feel about it. It's like so I don't mind in the least when a new vampire movie comes out or when a new werewolf movie comes out. I'm like, cool, let's see what you do with it.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Yeah, it's there they are and I might be overstating this, but they're the pantheon, they're our modern Greek gods. We have a shorthand with them. We don't need the origin story, we know who they are when they appear on screen. Yeah, it's just what's the nuance for these rules here? That's all I need to know. Catch me up to speed and let's go meet some people.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

I know. Yeah, like my uh like the werewolf script script I have, um, back to American Werewolf in London. Uh, you know, they American Werewolf in London uh established some of its own rules. It kind of created some new, it created some new rules, some new werewolf, werewolf rules. And I was like, yeah, man, those are my rules. You know, like right. Like I like those rules. That's like I grew up with those rules. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Tim, I can't thank you enough for spending some time talking horror with me today. I hope everybody out there checks out who's watching. I think it's interesting, challenging, surprising, at some point, shocking. I have a lot of good things to say about this, and you can expect a full review on the channel as well. Tim, thanks again. Can't can't thank you enough. Yeah, thank you. I had a great time. And as always, stay spooky, my friends.