SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Dread Alert Podcast. I'm Vince, and today I'm joined by Luke Dumas, author of Nothing Tastes as Good. And this is a book that I highly recommend you check out. Some of you know that I've been on a fitness journey myself. I've lost a significant amount of weight prior to starting this channel, but this novel captured my experience in a way that I don't think anything else I've ever read or watched or encountered has. It captured where I am now in my fitness journey. It captured where I was, and it adds cannibalism. So you know it's going to be a good time. I'm joined by author Luke Doumas today, and I'm so thrilled. Luke, thank you for being here. Thank you for this novel. Thank you for uh making me feel seen in a horror novel in a way that I wasn't expecting.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Well, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to talk to you, and thanks for sharing that. Um, that is just incredibly meaningful to know that it resonated with you like that.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

I am so excited for my wife to read this novel because she was also on a fitness journey prior to our uh the birth of our daughter and now is currently in the middle of another fitness journey after the birth of our son, uh, who's two months old. I think that this book is going to resonate with her as well. Um, but before I continue to gush and just and get everybody all pumped up about this book, could you tell me a little bit about what this book is from your point of view? Tell me about the plot. Just give me the log line, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Sure. So nothing tastes as good as a body horror thriller about a guy named Emmett who is over 300 pounds. He has always struggled with his weight, he's tried every diet under the sun. And he finds himself at sort of a dead end, personally. He's he's stuck at work, he's his love life is going nowhere, he's tried everything and doesn't know what to do. Um, and then he comes across this opportunity for a clinical trial for a miracle weight loss drug. And feeling like he has nothing to do, he decides to try it. And to his surprise, it's incredibly effective, um, like nothing else has been. And his life is going great. I mean, things are better at work, things are better with his love life. Everything seems perfect until weird stuff starts happening, he's waking up with blood on his hands, people who are really cruel to him start to go missing. And as, you know, the police are talking about some sort of cannibalistic killer on the loose, and he begins to worry that the drug is turning him into a monster. But can he get off of it now that his life is so good?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

That's so incredibly timely and relevant with just the cultural shift to uh more advanced weight loss drugs. And a conversation I frequently have with my wife is what happens next? Um, and I don't know that that's a good that I have a good answer for what it would look like. Uh, and I don't know that we as a society um have a good answer. And I can even speak to myself, just with calorie and restriction and exercise, I am struggling with what happens next uh for me. So I think the question posed by the novel is an exciting one, and I'm very excited for everyone who maybe hasn't been on this journey to read it, because I think it gives a brilliant insight into what that process is like for a person who carries weight. Uh and I think if for people who have ever struggled with their weight, you will see yourself in these pages um quite clearly. But tell me a little bit about yourself now. How how did you get started as an author? What what what's your writing journey been like?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yeah, so this is my third book. Um I have been writing seriously since high school. I really didn't start as a horror writer. I I really was inspired by authors like David Sederis and wrote a lot of comedy things, more humorous nonfiction stuff. Um, ended up doing a master's degree in creative writing in Scotland, which was an amazing experience. And again, was really writing like more comic satirical fiction. Um, but man, I was inspired by that city, uh city of Edinburgh, and just how gothic and dark and atmospheric it was. And I I I happened upon an idea that was more of a horror idea, and I'd always loved horror, I'd always read it, but I didn't know if I had the chops for it. But anyway, it got me, you know, inspired to write what ended up being my debut novel, A History of Fear, um, which was more a horror psychological suspense. And I've continued down that that track and I really love it. It feels like I've I found the right fit. Um, but also, you know, with this book and some of my other books, there is that satirical element still. There's that skewering element. So even though it's it's horror, there's a there's a a social element too that um really speaks to my uh original inspiration.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Thematically, and we're gonna get to this. I I like to ask this question late in the conversation, but I would say it is sharp thematically, in in some very clever ways that I I I don't know. I think we need this book right now uh as a society, as I've alluded to. Um and you mentioned Edinburgh as an influence. Uh I'm I'm wondering if there are any other horror authors or what specifically uh drew you to horror? What made you take the leap?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

I mean, I had always read it. I went through, I think like a lot of horror writers, I went through a Stephen King phase as a teenager, um, even a preteen. I think this book really came out of a love of the book thinner, one of Stephen King's earlier novels, which is a weight loss, like a dramatic weight loss horror. Um, and I had, you know, I I I've always loved things that are dark and things that are a little bit macabre. I think from a more aesthetic standpoint, I just am drawn towards the darkness a little bit. Um, so even when I was writing comedy, it was a darker comedy. But um I've always stayed there and I've always liked, I don't know, that it just it speaks to me. It speaks to me. And and more and more, you know, gothic aesthetic too, sometimes just really speaks to me. This one is not so gothic. Um, sort of my other two books are. This is a little bit sunnier because it's set in Southern California where I'm from, it has this sort of dark undercurrent running underneath it. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I've just always, I I love, I love things that um make you I don't know. I'm hard to scare. Like I don't get scared. When I read horror, I don't necessarily get scared, but I kind of grin. If I'm grinning, if it's like really gory or really intense or really mean in in that kind in that kind of way, I just I just find myself smiling and smirking and and uh that's sort of what I love to write.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

I I on this podcast, and listeners and viewers probably have heard this discussion quite a bit, but I I find there's such a a similarity between comedy and horror. The the element of surprise that you need to execute a joke is so similar to the element of surprise that that scares you. Um so it doesn't surprise me that you laid the groundwork in comedy. And this book is very funny as well. Uh you have to you have to be honest to be funny, though. And I think that that's uh such a a key point in this book. Uh I think the honesty of the book uh is noteworthy. And I wonder, you have such a clear vision on what it's like to live with weight and such a clear, um, fully fleshed-out character in Emmett. Why why is this story important? Why was it important to tell this story honestly and and why now? Uh we talked a little bit about it, but I'm curious if you have a statement on why now and why it's important.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Yeah, I've been wanting to tell a story like this for a long, long time. Really, since I read Finnner, I loved that that book was about a fat guy. And there haven't been too many since. I mean, that book was written in the 80s. Um I, you know, growing up, I I've always struggled with my weight. I was a chubby kid. I was like very obese as a teenager. I've been a hundred pounds heavier than I am now, um, and have have gained and lost weight. And, you know, I just I especially from a male perspective, I don't think it's something, it's a perspective we see very often, something we we think about in terms of how these body image issues can affect men as well as women. And I really just, I just I hadn't seen that perspective represented in a super authentic way in a fictional setting. I mean, I've read some amazing books, nonfiction books, written by female authors who write on the subject of fatness, and they do so brilliantly. And I felt very seen by those books. Um, but I think, you know, especially growing up in the 90s and the 2000s, when you saw fat male characters, they were caricatures and stereotypes. They were often gross and stupid and burping and shoving their face full of food. And I just, I mean, you internalize those things as a kid, but now as I'm a bit older, it's really very frustrating. And I just wanted something, I wanted to present a book that was a more nuanced take on fatness, male fatness, queer fatness, the sort of intersectionality of these different identities. And um, you know, for a long time, I was like, well, what is this gonna be? What is this? Eventually I realized I wanted it to be about a clinical trial. I wanted it to be about a drug. And that was kind of several years before Ozempic was a thing. Um and then, of course, Ozempic was a thing. And we started having this cultural conversation. And it just felt like this is the time to write this kind of book that not only represents this perspective that I feel like I can bring some authenticity to, but also is, you know, having some tough conversations about how we talk about fat people, what fat phobia looks like day to day in the lived experience, not sort of the over-the-top um portrayal we might think of from movies and television. And yeah, I I I I'm excited that it's just it's hitting at like the exact right time when everyone is is thinking about weight loss drugs.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

It's interesting because it goes so far beyond weight loss drugs, which is a huge theme and an incredibly important part of the plot, and it asks some relevant questions, but it goes to buying clothes in stores, um, your pants staying up at critical moments. It goes into biases in the hiring process, which uh looking back, I wonder how much that affected my career and where I am now, and how much more serious people take me as a professional uh now that I've shed 100 pounds. So, you know, I I'm I think this is an important story for a number of reasons, not the least of which uh is Ozempic and how we uh and the stigma with weight loss drugs as well, it gets explored here, which it was interesting to me because I took it's exposing my own personal biases. So I guess we're going, we're going off-scripted questions here, but you know, I was always like, yeah, I I lost this through, you know, regimented dieting and weighing my food and increasing my steps. And am I biased against somebody who's taking positive steps to better their life because they didn't do it the same way that I did? So it made me ask questions about myself, um, which was just a wild experience that I was not expecting. That that what's interesting though is that it all of those things just reinforce the beauty standards that we're sort of indoctrinated with. And there's a lot of indoctrination in this book as well, from the beauty standards that we mentioned to, and I can't comment on this with any sort of uh authority outside of being an ally to my friends in my theater background, but the the the beauty standards in the queer community and the grinder culture that that is sort of uh uh foreign to me, and so I can't, I don't want to speak too directly on it. But also indoctrination in the Mormon church, and I feel I've I've just reviewed a few movies that have to deal with religious horror in Mormons, and I feel like they're getting like beat up all over the horror subgenres uh across the board. And I don't want to pick on Mormons too much here. Um, but there's a there's a parallel between beauty standard indoctrination and religious indoctrination in this book. And I wonder if you have anything that you wanted to say with that or how you see those two as being related.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I mean, I think that patriarchy and fat phobia and beauty standards, these are all forms of dogma that we that we carry as a society and that are lingering and passed down from generation to generation in the same way that religions are. I mean, the the Mormonism aspect of this book is very light. It's not it's not a strong feature, and it's, you know, but um I also think that some of these sort of religions, these ways of thinking, they're very white patriarchal religions. And so they do carry these messages with them. And Mormonism is one where um there are elements of that religion that really do kind of teach healthy body, healthy connection to God. And those things can get written into the way we look at people and the decisions they make with their bodies. And you know, I was I'm not trying to hold up a like uh hold Mormonism up to the light too much, and and you know, but just thinking about the ways in which like different forms of indoctrination affect our thinking and the way we think about ourselves, because there's that element, but there's also just the shows and movies that Emmett was watching when he was a kid. I mean, there's like an episode of Friends on, and he at one point in the book, and he's like, oh my God, this was so terrible and harmful, and it seemed so innocuous at the time. Um, so I just try to shine a light on different areas of um, I guess, indoctrination or just where he's getting these influences. What he hears these voices in his head all the time telling him things about himself that he might not even really believe to be true. But like where are those voices coming from? And just taking a moment to to think through all those things. Because I think you have to, you have to be, you have to think about those things in order to unpick some of those harmful messages.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Well said. The the negative self-talk is something that um as a a chubby kid that uh is still something that lives with me right now. Um before we started recording, I mentioned that my wife frequently has to remind me about how I perceive myself versus how others might perceive me, especially people who didn't know me when I was fat. So very, very, very interesting stuff. And I think with regard to religion with regard to religion, fatness can often be presented as a moral failing. And uh unpacking that making Emmett uh uh uh Emmett being fat, some people see him as a monster, but the journey he goes on exposes ways that he might be monstrous that he wasn't aware of because uh he didn't have he didn't you know he never gave it the thought outside of people see me as a monster because I'm fat. He he discovers within himself monstrous qualities. And as an author, I'm curious how you can make Emmett so likable, because Emmett is extremely relatable, extremely likable, while still exposing some truly monstrous aspects of his personality, both conscious and unconscious. What with did you have an approach to writing a uh a protagonist who was a monster?

SPEAKER_01 16:24

I mean, not a conscious approach. I think my my initial approach to Emmett was to root him in my experience as much as possible, like a real human experience, because I think if we can make him feel real, um, then the reader will relate to him and then they will they will buy in to his story before the really crazy monstrous stuff starts happening. I mean, we I don't want the reader to to not side with Emmett. I want them to feel actually like by the time he starts acting out in conscious and monstrous ways, kind of rooting for him. And that's that's what I that's what I wanted. But I think to do that, you really have to understand him. You have to feel him, you have to feel empathy for him. And so um, that's sort of where I started with the book and with my approach to that character. I mean, he's not exactly me, but this is definitely by far the most autobiographical piece of fiction I've ever written. He has a lot of elements of me and my personal experience. So I just poured myself into him. And thinking thematically about him, you know, his story is one where it's a story of dehumanization. I mean, he feels like people don't treat him like a like a person more than anything, and that's why he feels monstrous. And his story, as he starts to take this drug, you know, people are treating him better. People are treating him like a person for the first time, but he knows he's doing things that are very bad. So he has this conflict of like, society has always treated me like a monster when I was a good person, and now they're treating me like a great person, even though I'm a monster. And what does he do with that conflict? Um, does he embrace his monstrousness? Does he fight against it? Um, and so that's sort of how I how I wanted to present the push and pull of his um internal turmoil as we progress through the book.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

It was extremely successful, uh, I will say. I I'm curious. Now, this in in the press materials, Peek Behind the Curtain, uh, was pitched as uh a bit of the substance and a bit of thinner. And I think that is a hundred percent accurate, although I will say that this has so much more going on below the surface than that log line or that that that uh packaging. Was there a favorite moment in the book in terms of body horror or gross out sequences? Because there's quite a few that I was like, uh do you have a favorite moment without spoiling things too much?

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Yeah, I mean, there is a favorite, and I can't really mention it because it's just like the garage scene, I will say. Like there, it's very, very intense and visceral moment that made me think, should I write this? Should like, is this okay? Um but I, you know, I decided to go for it. It was like nothing that I had seen before. And I really wanted to, I wanted the reader to to carry Emmett's weight along with him. I want them to understand why Emmett struggles so much. I mean, I don't think every person who struggles with their weight has some tragic or traumatic backstory. Um I certainly don't have that level of trauma from from my past, but I did want it to carry weight. And I just, yeah, I I hey, we're gonna go for it. And it is hard to read. But um I think it just speaks volumes about why Emmett is the way he is and why he does struggle and why we should have empathy for people who struggle with their weight, not knowing what might be I mean, like weight, food, these things are so complex. The reasons we we reach for the foods we do, there are so many reasons why we might do that. Um it's not just willpower, it's not just making good choices or education. I mean, there are we flatten these things in society and just make it about good choices, but that's not what it is for many of us. And um yeah, I just wanted I wanted a really visceral moment for us to to see how hard it is for Emmett.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

That moment was every traumatic moment I had as a child surrounding food or friends, or to a lesser extent family. My family's great, but ramped up to 10, just ratcheted up through the roof. And while it was incredibly real and uh it was incredibly visceral and disgusting and hard to read. And I was turning pages waiting to get there. I knew something was coming. I was like, wow, what is this thing he keeps alluding to? And when I got there, I wasn't disappointed. But it was also grounded in a reality, and that's that's a hard, hard balancing act to to pull off, making it uh making it exaggerated enough for dramatic purposes, but also keeping it real. Um very, very, very difficult to do. Uh there are a number of themes in this book from childhood trauma and you know, even touching on some some things that would probably require a trigger warning like eating disorders and things like that. Um, but the themes are, you know, being fat in society and how people see you. And there are beauty standard themes, there are um moral failing themes, there are, you know, uh, what are you willing to sacrifice to get what you want themes. There's a ton that's bundled up in here. Uh, I wonder if there's something that you would like the reader to take away from this book after reading it. And and I'm gonna preface this, you don't have to have an answer to this. Oftentimes when I speak to a film director, they're like, yes, this is exactly what I hope the audience takes away. But oftentimes when I speak to authors, they're like, I'm not gonna be prescriptive here, however it affects you. So you don't have to have an answer to this. But uh, if there is something you'd like the audience to consider after reading the book, I would love to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yeah, I mean, I think my approach to writing fiction is never to present like a clear answer or a prescriptive moral, but to pose a lot of questions and to pose both sides of those questions. Um, like Emmett is very empathetic, but at times he is not empathetic and he acts, you know, like I always want to present multiple points of view. Um, you know, we have Emmett's experience of fatness, but we also have a completely different experience of fatness in his best friend Lizette, who's very body positive and doesn't understand why he feels so ashamed. There's always multiple points of view. And I guess I want readers to come away from the book thinking more critically about their own preconceived notions and assumptions about fatness and food that they project onto others, but also that they project onto themselves. It's not that I I have a good answer for like, should we hate our bodies? Should we accept our fat bodies? Like, you know, what should we do to fix this broken society, this broken food system? I don't have all of those answers, but I hope readers will come out of the book maybe thinking a little bit more deeply about things that they might have said or believed for years and years. They might have, you know, thrown off the cuff to one of their friends, just like trying to be helpful. That was actually very hurtful. These things that they maybe wouldn't have thought deeply about before. Um and really interrogate those things and also just have more empathy, have more empathy for themselves and the ways in which they might have been impacted by fat phobia in in ways throughout their life, whether they're fat or not. I mean, I think we are all impacted by the society and the way our society sees bodies and values perfectionism. Um, but empathy towards themselves and empathy towards others, and maybe just, yeah, think a little bit more deeply about the things that they say and why they believe the things they believe.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

I think that empathy as a takeaway is not only the best takeaway, but uh I think horror is the right vehicle for that. Horror always, almost unilaterally asks us to put ourselves into someone else's shoes, um, whether it's relating to the final girl as a man and feeling the the fear for her or you know cross-gender identification, but you're always in I've never been chased by a slasher and I love slasher movies. I'm always asked to go beyond myself in this genre, so I think you picked a really good one to tell this story. What what and and again, deviating a bit from the the questions I prepared, I I just want to highlight how difficult it is sometimes when you're dealing with that food noise. I I don't I deal with the same food noise at 165 pounds as I did at 265 pounds. Whereas I quit drinking, it'll be I I I'm I think 12 years in April, and like I just put it down, but every day I have to eat. There's not a there's not an option there. I don't get to be like, whoa, uh today I'm taking today off. I'll just start again next week. Uh the chatter that we deal with from growing up in the 90s, I think you hit on a really good point where we all are we all are affected by these beauty standards. And as they grow and change, we grow and change. But there was a particular time in my lifetime where unless you were nearing an eating disorder, you were fat. And so I think that this book is a little bit for everybody. Yeah. Really well said.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. The the the food noise is crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy from um from like a societal level, because we're we're all, you know, especially growing up, you're getting these messages, you're getting commercials thrown at you that are like trying to get you to eat these foods which have been created in a lab to make you not feel full and to make you want to keep eating. Um but also from a chemical level, like from a chemical level, like I think food noise is a real thing. I talk, I the book deals a lot with food addiction and disordered eating, um, particularly undiagnosed, like binge eating disorder, which is something that I feel like I probably have had because I always was just like very compulsively eating and couldn't stop, couldn't stop thinking about food and the the support, you seek support from the medical community and get nothing. I mean, you would get like, well, we can refer you to a dietitian, we can refer you to a nutritionist, they can tell you to eat more fruits and vegetables, which you already know because you've gone through the American education system and you understand the food pyramid and ice cream is bad and and fruits and vegetables are good. Like, I know, I know, but I have a chemical dependency on sugar and fat and salt. And can you please help me? And the answer, you know, was no. It was always no. And um, when we think about other forms of addiction, there are pharmaceutical aids to help many, not all of them, but many forms of, I mean, you think about heroin addiction, there is like methadone. There are certain ways that we do try to help people who struggle with those forms of addiction, but not necessarily with food addiction because we don't see it in the same way. We do think of it as a a character, like a character flaw or a moral failing, as you said. So I again, it's just one more thing I wanted to throw some light on and make people think a little bit about. Like, why do we treat fatness and food different than we treat other forms of addiction or other forms of struggle or medical issue? Because the medical community is very clear that obesity is a disease and there's an obesity epidemic, and it's very costly to the public healthcare system. Okay, so it's a medical condition. So where are the where's the medical support?

unknown 28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

They took Ephedra away from us. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

And now we have it, right? Like now we have these drugs. And now as a society, we do maybe find ourselves judging people who use them because they're not losing weight the right way. Um so it's like it's it's a lose-lose for for fat people in some ways. And um, yeah, I will say I I food noise is is something I think about because I have been on the weight loss drugs, and the food noise was over like it immediately went away for the first time in my life. So the the drugs are crazy effective.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Um you know, I I think that there is uh where I have landed in my introspection with that is if the drugs are effective and if the side effects are not monstrous, so to speak, um go for it. Have a plan to transition when you've hit your goal weight, have a plan to transition because I'm struggling with that transition and I didn't use drugs. So at the at the end of the day, I'm in the same boat as somebody coming off Ozempic. Uh, so use the Ozempic if it's gonna work for you. You know what I mean? Uh it's just my own personal musings. It's it is a question that I think we need to uh answer though, because I when we when we pose Ozempic as a lesser, and again, I'm saying I don't think it's lesser, but as a society, if we if we look at that as a lesser way to lose weight, then we are back to fatness as a moral failing. And I just don't think it is. I think that a lot of the things are stacked against you to fail from to your point about the food industry. A lot of a lot of things are stacked against you to fail with body standards. If you're even a chubby kid, you're already getting indoctrinated with your being you are less than. There's so much that there's so much stacked against you that it is difficult. Uh uh to your point of the book that that even if you are on a calorie-restricted diet, you've affected your body in a way that might not recover. You may not recover from. So there's science backing uh anti-calorie restrictions. I I think the book lands at a certain point on you're doomed to fail if you struggle with your weight almost uh at a certain at a certain point towards the end. I just I found the whole thing fascinating. I think I think this book is incredibly honest, it's incredibly sincere, it's incredibly funny, it's incredibly gnarly at certain points. And um I I said it at the beginning of our conversation. I don't think an author has made me in this particular struggle that I'm in right now, and that I've been, you know, it took me two years to lose this weight. And now that I've hit around my goal weight and have started to equalize and gain some weight back, it it just it was exactly what I needed to read at the exact right moment. So I I thank you deeply for that. These are some questions we ask everybody who comes on the show and uh author, filmmaker, cinematographer, whoever you happen to be, we ask a variation of these questions. So you don't have to have one answer. If you have multiple things that you would like to shout out, please feel free. I had someone send me a list of films that inspired them. Um, but I'm curious, do you have a favorite body horror story, book, television, movie, how whatever the format, but a favorite body horror story?

SPEAKER_01 32:23

I mean, I've been thinking a lot about The Substance because obviously this book has been comp to the substance quite a bit. Um, this book wasn't inspired by the substance in this in the sense that I wrote it and then the movie was coming out, and I was like, oh God, or I wrote it about this movie. But actually now it's like this brilliant compliment because it was such an amazing movie, and I really do love it. I love how it um sort of really dug into. I mean, like, yes, beauty standards, we know beauty standards are harmful, but it really dug into the psychology and made you feel for, you know, the main character in a way that I just really responded to. And also was incredibly disgusting and visceral and like I just from both angles. I I love things that make you think and that make you feel, have these really intense emotions, but also just have fun with kind of the gross horror elements or the scarier elements. And it blended those things beautifully. And I I do I do think this is like this book could be a spiritual successor to that movie. Um, but when I think about like the things that affected me, like from a body horror standpoint, I've thought about what are some of the influences on this book? Because there are some body horror elements. There are moments when um Emmett finds his body changing out of control at moments of high stress that he he that are disastrous for him. And I was trying to think about influences, and a lot of the body horror I really internalized as a kid, right? It wasn't actually horror. I mean, these were things that we would see and maybe things that were more comedic. One reader actually said, Oh, this part reminded me of the nutty professor. It reminded me of this like scene, this like bizarre scene in the nutty professor where the character is like blowing up out of control, like getting fat out of it. And I was like, I have not thought of this movie in 20 years. Did I internalize the nutty professor in in creating a body horror for this book? I don't know. There were, you know, there was a movie that, you know, now it's like maybe perceived as as controversial. As a kid, I watched it a lot, and it's called Big Trouble in Little China. And there's a character that's sort of like he can like blow himself up and he like blows himself up out of control. And I I I really, for whatever reason, that scene always stuck with me. There's these little things, um, but when I think of body horror, sometimes you can find body horror in in action and adventure and comedy and all these things um that you don't necessarily think of as horrifying.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

I love that answer. Uh, and I think you're right. Uh it's it's a fine line between comedy and horror. I'll come back to that point. Well, and and I just want to put a fine point on your your comment about Emmett blowing up out of control. While that was incredibly gnarly, and uh uh I don't want to spoil the book, but there's a sequence that you just you feel so awful for him uh that that he's just like barely hanging on uh uh in his clothes are doing the same. But it really spoke to it really spoke to the experience though of like I'm doing everything right and I'm still gaining weight, or you know, I that that fear of uncontrollable weight gain and and going back to what you were or worse. Uh I it just it spoke to the psychology of the character earlier in the novel as well and used a mechanism of body horror to really nail it. That was it was really creative stuff. Uh I have to ask, do you have a favorite horror movie of all time? We tend to traffic in horror films here. We do a lot of coverage on books, but I I love asking people what their favorite horror movie is.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

I do have a favorite. It's um it's Black Swan, Darren Aronofsky film, which is horror, it's like psychological thriller. It's kind of a blend of those things. And that's kind of where my books sit as well, the sort of blend of horror and psychological thriller. Um, I just think it's a perfect movie. I just think it's incredible. Um, I'm really interested in a more psychological take on horror. I I I've done this pretty much with all of my books, but just thinking that question of like, is what's happening, is what we're seeing happening in this story, in this plot really happening, or is it inside this character's head? And why is it, if it's inside their head, why? Like um thinking through their trauma or their upbringing or the pressures that they have that might be um, you know, fracturing their psyche in some way that's distorting their perception. I just love how that movie does it. It keeps you on the edge of your seat. You're really not sure. Some amazing twists, but also just like incredible horror imagery. Um, you know, when she's this ballet dancer who's performing the black swan in Swan Lake and is just obsessed with perfection, actually like starts to become the black swan and like, you know, feathers bursting out of her skin. It's so visceral, but also sort of like the substance. I mean, it's underpinned by this incredible emotion and this uh desperation and desire um for, you know, in this case, achievement of perfection, and which really you could say the same about the substance. I guess there's something to that that really resonates with me. And I just absolutely adore that film.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

I will take an unreliable narrator any day of the week. I find those movies to be endless, endless little pockets of curiosity for me. I I definitely could see that. I actually picked that movie up on Blu-ray at Scarefest weekend in Kentucky last October. Um, for $2, somebody was selling it on a on a used table. I was like, that is a done deal. I got my kiddo a little Ninja Turtle figure. I was like, this booth is for me. Used media. My wife is like, she's like, you can't, I can't even be mad at you. Your DVD collection is so your Blu-ray collection is overflowing, but I can't be mad at that one. Black Swan is awesome. So I agree. It's a good choice. Yes. Um Yeah. So what are you working on next? And I know that's a loaded question for an author. You probably can't tell me a ton about your next project, uh, but is there anything you'd like to plug?

SPEAKER_01 39:07

I mean, I am working on my my next book, my next adult thriller, which is a really bloody wild thriller set in a zoo. And I won't say too much more about that. Um and that'll be out next year. And then I have a story coming out in an anthology called The Big Bad Book of Kaiju, which is uh coming out from Titan Books in July 2026. Um and it is an anthology of you know, stories about original monsters, kaiju style monsters. Um, so basically, you know, huge monsters and animals destroying cities, and um it should be really fun. It's being published, as I said, by Titan and edited by Jonathan Mayberry and Henry Hertz, and it's it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

I feel like that is those are two of the coolest things I've heard plugged in a long time. I feel like my daughter would absolutely love you. First of all, she's just obsessed with monsters. And secondly, uh, the number of times I've been to the zoo uh this past year has probably equaled the number of times I've been to the zoo in my 42 years. So I think I I'm I'm vibing with what you're putting out. My lived experience is reflected again. Um when when does the book hit shelves? When can people get uh when can people get Nothing Tastes As Good?

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Nothing Tastes As Good comes out March 31st.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Excellent. Wherever you get your books, definitely put this one on your to be red list, especially if you've ever had anyone in your life or if you yourself have struggled with your weight, uh struggled with queerness or or uh embracing your queerness. I think all of these themes are really accurately and honestly represented in this book. Uh last question for you where can my listeners find you on social media?

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Yeah, I'm mostly on Instagram and a little bit on threads at the new Dumas. Um and I have a website, lukedoumas.com, but mostly Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

That will be in the description of this video or podcast that you're listening to. Luke, thank you. This has been uh a very soul reaffirming, refilling conversation for me, uh, much like reading the book was. Uh I said it already in the conversation, but this was the exact book I needed to read when I read it. And I just I just couldn't be more grateful. I really, I really appreciate the work you've done here.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Well, I appreciate hearing that. That's why I wrote it. I wanted it to resonate with people who hadn't felt a book resonate with them in in that way. So that really means a lot.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

That's amazing. And I hope that it resonates with all of you out there. And remember, stay spooky, my friends.