SPEAKER_05 0:00

Welcome back to the Dread Alert Podcast. Today we're joined by Morley Nelson, the writer, director, and star of the film Uncontained. And if you haven't seen this film yet, stop this podcast. Go watch the film. It's available on Amazon Prime. It's a phenomenal take on a zombie outbreak film. And it's unlike any zombie film I've seen in the past. And I don't want you to be spoiled going into this one because there are some really gut-punch surprises and some really interesting structural things that happen in this movie. All that is to say, Morley, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Thank you for that fantastic introduction. That's um that was amazing. So it it knocked me off my chair. No. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's a blast. I love talking, so this is fantastic.

SPEAKER_05 0:44

Oh, hey, and and we we love listening to interesting stories, and I'm sure you have a ton with this project. It was an indie project that you sort of bootstrapped together. So I'm sure the project itself was a journey. Can you start us off by giving us the log line? What is the pitch for uncontained? As much as you're willing to tell an audience who may or may not have seen the film.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Sure. It's uh a mysterious drifter uh comes across two abandoned children uh and has to defend them against certain elements, a militia, and a virus that turns people feral. That's off the top of my head. You know, it's interesting because the log line has changed like 50 times. And when you're fortunate enough to get distribution as an indie film, uh they have uh great marketing teams, and they're like, okay, this log line you have is terrible. Like, you know, you can't so this let's do what about this? Or what about and then there's a lot of nice, like if for me I was very fortunate to work with uh Cinniverse's marketing team, and they had a there was a lot of back and forth. They weren't just like this is what it's gonna be, or you know, okay, stupid, here's the log line.

SPEAKER_05 1:53

And you know, I go ahead. They they bought it for a reason, and I'm sure you were a big part of that. So working with you on that is a it's a vote of confidence in the film. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, I it was uh, you know, as a writer, the log line is kind of I think one of the best exercises you have to know if you have a good story, right? To be able to say, you know, what is it, who's in it, where does it take place, what time frame, what are the what are the obstacles all in one sentence, right? Is very tough. And so when you think you've nailed it, and then for someone to come along and say, no, it's this, and then you're just like, oh, yeah, yeah, you're right. It is better that way, or you know, and I and I think too sometimes you get it's it's interesting because as a writer from the writing portion, and you know this, right? You get stuck in this is my I these are my images, my ideas, my vision. I, you know, you vomit it out on paper, you condense it, you get rid of this, kill your darlings, do all this stuff, right? And then you let that first person read it. And for me, it's my wife, and then they read it, and of course, it is my wife because I'm always like, Oh, what do you know? You're stupid, shut up, you know, or whatever. Because I know she can take it, right? And then she's and she's not gonna, you know, we're having gotten divorced yet. So, you know, she's generally gives that constructive criticism that you're not willing to hear yet because you're so delicate, and then you're like, Oh, okay, you're right, and then you switch a bunch of stuff and fix a bunch of things, and then you send it to your the next confidant, right? And you know, for me, that's uh a really good A-list writer who who mentored me into writing and and why I'm here today. And he's very generous with notes. It's not ever anything too callous, it's very, he's very gentle, and you can tell he works a lot with creatives, and then um, and then I send it to the non-industry people and see like, hey, what do you think? And and what and when if they have certain questions and they're not in the industry, then I address those questions. But by that time, you've had a bajillion eyes on the story. And so when you think you've really got it hampered down, you decided what not to listen to and what to listen to, and whose advice is is genuine and whose advice you should take. Um, so when you when you have the final product and you and you think you have that great log line, to hear otherwise is kind of like, oh more after all, you know. But um yeah, so it's I don't know what it how do you take when people read your stuff for the first time?

SPEAKER_05 4:29

Are you are you are you strong enough for that or are you it's difficult. Um and I will say being online has thickened my skin a bit, although I did get a comment today that I was like, get out of here. I I literally have it from the director that that was the case. Don't tell me I'm wrong in my comments. Um but I I I pride myself on having done every job in the theater company that I ran for 12 or so years, including writing a play. But I was never a writer first, I was always a director first. And by that point, it's too late. So if when people are seeing your work, uh and I would bring in my mentor into like an early run and take notes from them. Um, and and of course, if you're working for another company, a producer will have producer notes during the run. But typically speaking, designer run throughs, your bones are in place, and if there's major problems, it's difficult to fix them. So there was a sense of panic if my story was unclear as a director, or a reworking of a rehearsal schedule was necessary. Um it was it was challenging. My wife, who uh runs a sister channel on the Dread Alert Network called Spooky Families, she was more of the writer. And I give her all the credit in the world because she is graceful in taking notes in a way that I never could be. I was better as an actor. Uh, it was never as personal uh as an actor, but and I think you could probably talk about this when we get into your process as a director. Putting something out there in the world as a director is an intensely personal process, and you are exposing a part of your soul. The vulnerability as an actor is one thing. You have the character to hide within, but as a director, it's your statement. And I'm curious, what was your process like uh in the development of this as a as a as a writer-director? Um, uh versus you know, when you got on the ground, what was the process of making the film like directing yourself? That's uh something I've never done.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Well, it's uh so it's a little insane. Um it I think there's a lot of I cried a lot in the shower, like every day. No, I'm kidding. I didn't cry in the shower. Um but it was uh you know, I think Sydney Sidney Lume said it best when he's like, you know, like you were talking about when you sit down and in the production pre-production phase and you have that first table read or you're you know looking at production notes, and he said, you know, he's I can't, I'm paraphrasing, but he's like, everyone blames the writer because it's the only thing that's done. Right at that point, right? It's the only concrete thing, and everyone can complain about it because no one's done anything else yet. And so, you know, I think there's a lot of wisdom to that, but also, you know, there I everyone is like uh up until doing that. I had done some technical directing prior to that, but you know, I was never the the director on film and television. Uh, and I'd done a lot of writing for film and television. And so to marry those two, there was always that, you know, a lot of people, and I think there's a lot of naysayers just inherently in this creative world, are like, oh, don't you're gonna work with kids, you're gonna work with a dog, you're gonna work outside, you're gonna, are you insane? You're doing, you know, and I think the best advice I could give anyone is that no one knows your story or your script better than you. And the cheat that you have as a director that wrote the script that you're directing is that if you weren't the best writer in the world and you weren't able to capture the essence of what you were trying to say on the page, but you know in your head what you want to capture on frame, then you're the best person to do that. Like no one can tap into your brain better than you, obviously. So you have that running kind of dialogue in your head, you have the running images in your head. I, you know, we kind of storyboarded everything out, we ended up not using them. I had a shot 420 some shots in a shot list, we ended up not using those, and um we stuck to a really great schedule because we had a Catherine Hattam was our AD, she was phenomenal, and because we had a phenomenal AD, we're able to have a little more wiggle room. I mean, we shot the film, it was a 15-day schedule we shot and we wrapped in 14, so she was amazing. But that allowed the cinematographer Bo Hakala and I to like work out certain beats that you know, I'm not I'm not sure if he actually looked at my shot list, which I'm still kind of mad at him for, but um, you know, no, the uh it was it was a great team effort to get that together, but I think to answer your question, I had the movie centered around in my head, was getting I I think I really wanted to, like you said, bear if I'm gonna bear everything, I want to make sure that what I'm bearing, those emotional elements, are being communicated so that anybody who watches it feels that as well. Like that was my goal. If if I wanted you to feel scared or excited, or ultimately I think the film revolved around one scene, and that's the final scene, and the music had to be perfect building up to it, the reveal had to be perfect, and everything had to be perfect, so that I think in and I was joking about crying in the shower, but if I could get myself to be emotional just thinking about that scene, then I knew that was it. And I knew we had to build everything up to that, and I knew everything after that climax had to work for that one scene. And it yeah, and I think looking back, it's not even you know what I'm talking about, and try not to spoil it, but the scene, the character, the scenes built around isn't even a main character, right? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

But it was it was a gut punch uh leading up to it. So you you you gut punched me, and then you surprised me again because I was surprised at how that played out in the in the build-up, and then I was surprised how it played out in the payoff. And honestly, I think you're right, that is the heart and soul of this movie, and your character's journey to getting to make the decisions that they make at the end of that. Uh, it was it was brilliant to watch. I'm I'm curious with the editing of the film, because you don't give us a breath at all. Like this is like when I when I was getting into the film in the first 10 or 15 minutes, it felt like what vignette and another vignette, and we're back, and we're back. Uh you know, we kept switching between the narratives a bit, and I didn't quite know what I was getting into in terms of the overall narrative. Did you have a philosophy with the edit? Because it is it is pedal to the metal the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yes, I so that's very smart of you to pick up on. The uh I worked with uh Charlie Gushewski, who's uh editor, he has his own, he's a partner with Kelly Nelson and oh, I can't remember their other partner's name. But I worked, I worked hand in hand with Charlie. We were very tight. And in fact, the one of the best things to happen from this movie was my relationship with Charlie. We became friends, and you know, we'll be lifelong friends now. But you know, he's a fantastic guy. He's phenomenal. I have nothing. I mean, he if anyone needs an editor, he is the man, and he owns his own uh commercial post house. And so he's been doing post-production and production for probably close to 30 years now. Uh, and he's a phenomenal guy. He has the driest sense of humor. I mean, we're sitting in the edit room and he would say something, and I remember the first time he said it, I was like, What the hell did this guy just say? And then he kind of spun around in his editor chair and he said, Uh, this is the part where my friends tell me to tell you I have a very dry sense of humor. That's awesome. All right, here we go. Uh, this is gonna be fun. So, but he has a really so Charlie's amazing because I've worked with a lot, or I've been in a lot of edit sessions, not as the director, but you know, sitting on that the nice leather couch with the eight other people, and you're everyone's on their phone, and I'm watching the editor and the director talk back and forth. I've had the privilege of being in quite a few of those rooms. Uh and I feel like Charlie was the first, I'd say maybe 20 editors that I've been with. He was the first editor that edits to music. And I know they say they listen to music when they edit, but Charlie has this like on, he's like a genius in the sense that he has this ongoing tune in his head. So when we did this the uh temp score, it was vital that we lay the temp score down. So he would put together some selects. Uh, we used a uh platform, I think Adobe just bought it called Frameio. And so you could up, he could upload the images to Frameio, and I could log on to Frameio at any time, and at any section I can put a note right in the timeline, or I can say this, or cut here to here, or take a segment, or whatever. So even if we weren't together, we were always working on it, and I could send him info. But we placed in this temp score. Um, first we determined I sat with him and I talked about what the tone is, right? Because he his idea of what the tone is from looking at the the visual footage might have been very different from mine, but fortunately we sunk. Uh and we put in the the temp score we borrowed heavily from The Prisoner and I what was the other film we borrowed heavily from? Uh it was The Prisoner and I don't remember. Uh Charlie came up with another film that I thought was a great oh, The Gray. So, and those are also two very big inspirations for the movie, especially you know, Joel Carna car Joel Carnahan's The Gray. Phenomenal film, right? Um in fact it inspires the first the first scene, and I don't want to give that away either, but uh I figured if Liam Neeson could do that at 79 years old or whatever he was, then you know I can do it naked. So that was kind of the inspiration for that scene. But uh to go back to it, the editing with the idea was in the story the whole time. We knew we didn't have m so we only have $55,000 for the budget, and we knew that going wild to me. That's like the what you accomplished with that amount of money is just wild to me. Uh please continue. Thank you. Yeah, it was so we knew it was tight. We knew you only had 15 days. Uh, we shot at our house, and we're we have uh five and a half acres of like have the woods, so the 40 different locations that it happened exterior in the exteriors, that's all on our property. So we didn't so we were we're fortunate with that amount of money, we knew we had to shoot it here. Um and I knew again with a tight budget that in the script the pacing had to be phenomenal, right? Like I think there's there's a bunch of movies that exist that where kind of nothing really happens if you explain the story to someone, you can explain it to them in like a minute, right? Like I uh I can't remember there's a Canadian film about a school bus bus crash, and Ian Holm is an investigator, and he goes, and Bruce Greenwood is this bus driver. Oh, I can't remember the name of the movie. It kills me. It's like on the top 100 list of of all all critics. Um and I can't remember the name of it. It's a phenomenal film, and really it's just about this investigator, insurance investor who goes and interviews five town people about this horrible school bus accident. It's nobody's fault. It's icy road, it's just a terrible school bus accident. And the pacing is so fantastic that even though there's nothing happening, you're just glued to each second. And I wanted to put that down in the script so that the pacing was from scene to scene, we're not there's nothing that's I know everyone says, Well, you can't waste anything in the next one scene has to lead in the other, but I truly wanted to capture that. And another example is Blue Blue Ruin by Megan Blair. I haven't seen that either. So you're you're filling out my watch list. This is good stuff. So it's uh it's kind of a you know, as he did it on very low budget as well, right? And it's a revenge movie, and really nothing happens between, you know, in all three acts, you have the instigating incident, and then you have you know, act one and act two and act three. And if I did described it to you, there's there's very little action in it, but there is action throughout the entire film because you just cannot miss a minute. And if you do miss a minute, you are gonna be lost, right? And I think that was what I wanted to do. So Charlie and I worked really well together, and we would hold on to the wide shots, the establishing shots, as long as we could to kind of feed in to plate the appetite, like this is what you're about to get. And in some instances, setting the table, you saw, yeah, okay, this is the table I'm going into. And then we'd serve the first course, and that course, you're like, oh, okay, this is what I expected. And then the second course, oh, that's what I expected. And then by the time you got to the main course, we knew you'd go 90 degrees. And so, and as a horror fan, I wanted to set those moments up where I'm like, okay, this is as a horror fan, it's not necessarily I didn't, it wasn't a trope, but as a horror fan, you're like, I sense this is coming. Like, this is what's gonna happen. And I wanted to twist that on its head each time we went through. And in order to do that for the kind of the seven segments that I do that in, you have to have a really tight setting. And so that's or setting the table for setting the table for that. So that's kind of what we did, and it and it fortunately worked out, and then we were lucky enough that that uh Ryan Wood and Chase Cooker of Chromosomes did the score and the soundtrack, and they were phenomenal in understanding. I mean, it we sent them the rough cut, and they were oh, I'm sorry, it's it's bedtime. Uh we sent them the the rough cut, and uh it was amazing for them to go, we know exactly what to do. Like they said, you know, we can do this, we we're and they were very understanding. They do a ton of big projects, and they were very understanding. And I said, Hey, you know, we only have this amount of money. Would you even talk to us? Like, you know, whatever. And they said, Well, send us the film, we'll take a look. And we send them the film, and they were very gracious, and they said, Absolutely, and we know exactly what to do. And you guys, you know, the edit to the music, the temp score that you have, is the best we've ever seen. So there's a lot to do with Charlie's style of editing. And so I want to give him a ton of credit for that, right? And and then also chromosomes for laying the atmosphere and really elevating the film with their score. But um, yeah, it was it was there was a lot of, you know, you kill a lot of darlings in the script, and you have to, I think, in the edit, avoid wanting to, when you see a moment where you're like, oh, I we can capture that darling and we can bring it back to life. And then having the discipline to say, no, there's a reason we killed it, it's dead. Yeah, right. It is not an infected, it's dead. So, you know, it's like, and then working hand in hand with this fantastic editor who's really in, I mean, smart, quick, sharp, has an eye for it, and is strategic. And I I think that Charlie is very impressive with that. So we were able to, I think, argue with each other a lot. And because we argued about what we should do, you know, I ultimately, I think there's two times I overwrote him as the director, and only two times, and the one time it didn't even matter. It was we did a Dutch angle on the house. I was like, you know, Hitchcock will do this, you know. He's like, fine, you know, whatever. He's like, it's not symmetrical. I'm like, no, it's a Dutch angle. I love him. Yeah, you're gonna be every time with that. Yeah. So but the the last one was kind of we went back and forth a lot. And then and then the nice thing too, I think within a horror community, and you know, you probably get this in other communities as well, but I feel like within a horror community, I was able to share a director, like the first cut, right, with a bunch of people I trusted. And to the point where it's like, yeah, they're not gonna pirate the film, they're not gonna put it out there. I can trust them. And then they give their honest opinion. And we did that with probably Mick Guzendowski was the first one. Uh, he's Charlie's best friend. He's also an editor, but he's like his biggest competitor. Oh, yeah. The companies compete. And so that was great to get Mick in there and get his advice. And he has a very different way of like Mick is an insane, crazy guy who I mean, he's like ADHD on meth, nonstop energy all the time. Uh fantastic guy, hilarious. Um so to see those two together as best friends is kind of it's it's super fun. It's I wouldn't say it's like Laurel and Hardy, but it's you know, it's more like I guess Hobbes and Shaw, right? Like to watch them go intellectually speaking. But um, yeah. So we're fortunate to have a great community that would give on their honest advice and really wanted the project to succeed. And without without them, we wouldn't have. So I think. It's a lot of elements coming together, but then also knowing what I mean, you really have to take a step back and go, this is what we have, and this is what's gonna work. You know, and of course, I think like every filmmaker too, I think James Cameron said the best. We you get half of what you need and twice as much of what you don't. And we had to make the what you don't work. And so, um, you know, with a tiny budget that we had, there wasn't really we we tried to do some reshoots, um, and we failed at some of them because we just didn't have money. Um, and then finally we did we did do some reshoots that were vital. I I just we we tried really hard and as as much magic post-magic as Charlie could give, we just weren't able to do it without doing some research reshoots. So that that hurt, but um ultimately the film succeeded for it. And I think you know that's yeah, it's tough to keep that pace, but I I just don't see doing uh any kind of film, any kind of genre without having that pace. Otherwise, you know, especially today, I feel like it's so easy to be distracted, so because our mindset is that way all day long. Like, how do you keep people from checking their phones or you know, stopping the movie to go do something or or whatever? And I think you have to do that through the pacing of the story.

SPEAKER_05 23:24

I just watched a film today that was I felt like it had a retention edit with Instagram or TikTok in mind, and I was like, it worked. I mean, it worked, but it was uh definitely very fast-paced. And I feel like the edit here, if I had to preview our review of this film, which was published shortly before this goes live, so if you're watching this, go watch our review as well. Um if you've already seen the movie, that is. I feel like the edit was lovingly ruthless, if that makes sense. There was just, you know, there was zero fat and it was so well cared for. But that's not to say that the character moments didn't have time to breathe, because there was a lot of character development in this film. And I want to highlight one thing that I think is very interesting. It's that there are children in this film, and there is a dog in this film, as you've mentioned, and they those are people who are fairly close to you. Uh, am I correct in saying that?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah, yeah. My my kids and my dog. So yeah. When we shot at the brook the their names are their actual names, and the the character names are the actual names, because I knew at their age, Brooke was two and a half at the time, or maybe three, Jack was seven. And there's just no way we were gonna keep it straight if they had different names, right? Yeah. And the only reason my character's name is Dan originally, I wanted to be to feel more like you know, you have this intermarried intermediary character who's the outsider. He's you know, one foot in this world, one foot in the other world. He, and you know, we've all felt like outsiders at one point. So I thought people identify with him, uh, and that's why his name was the man, right? So, you know, kind of a call out to the common man, right? So the only reason it's Dan the man is because Brooke was so young, she kept calling me dad. And so we thought, okay, if his name is Dan, then the audience won't really pick up on it. They'll just, you know, it'll go right by and they'll be fine with it. So that's why he's Dan. And we had to, you know, so there was a lot of working with that. I knew with her there'd be no line memorization. So I always find it fascinating when people are like, oh man, she really knew her lines, or or that two-year-old girl was terrible with her lines, or whatever, right? And it's just like, she's two, like she was doing her being her. Like that's there's no acting. She's just being a two-year-old in this situation, and I'm, you know, getting her to do stuff in that situation that I want her to do. So, you know, that was that was interesting and fun, and she loved being with the crew. Like her favorite, I'd still ask her today what her favorite part was, and she just absolutely loved the not shooting part, like all the stuff, hanging out with the crew and everything else, which we all, I mean, is just as almost as much fun as as filming, right, is the hanging out with everybody in that tight-knit community. And you wish you could double the time and do that, but yeah, you know, she got to do that a lot, and everyone was fantastic. And I think the kind of the feeling on set was was great because you had a two and a half year old and you had a puppy, and you had these, you know, these wonderful elements there that bring out the best in people. So the mood on set was was phenomenal. And then my son Jack, he would, you know, you're putting him in these situations and you tell him ahead of time, okay, so this is what we're gonna do, Jack. You're gonna take this nerf gun and then you're gonna put nerf darts with needles in them, and you're gonna load it up, and so that later you're gonna shoot zombies with them, right? And he's like, Okay, got it. And he's like, Can I, can I actually like poke my finger with the needle? And I said, No, it just looks like you can. This great question. I said, Now, while you're doing this, I want you to think you're really mad. And he's like, Okay, but I'm not mad. And I said, Yep, that's true. He's like, but I look like I'm mad, and I said, Yep. And he's like, Oh, I love that. And so he loved the acting part. And I asked him earlier today, on the way home from school, what was his favorite part was, and he said, You could be somebody that you're not, but still be a little bit of you, and put yourself, and I was like, I thought, wow, that's really that's really wise for for an actor to say. That's what I took away from theater school, essentially, you know. Right, right. Yeah. If I were in this situation, but yeah, yeah, right. I thought that was great. And so maybe there's a future for him in acting if he wants. Um, but he he didn't read the script. I didn't have him read memorize lines, I just would feed him the lines of like a minute before we started shooting. And I was always worried, because he has some chunky dialogue at moments, and I was worried that he's just not he's he's not gonna memorize it and he's not paying attention to me, and he's you know, goofing around with the Nerf gun or he's goofing around with the dead hand or you know, whatever. And not one every single time he never missed a line ever. And in fact, after we were done shooting, uh I guess I I think Peter O'Mara asked him, Peter O'Mara's the bad guy, Brett, in the black hat. He asked Jack, you know, and he's like, What's just your favorite part of the movie or whatever? Because he's from Ireland. Uh and and Jack was like, uh I think the Nerf gun part, but most of it was really boring because all the adults kept screwing up and we'd have to do the same thing over and over again until they got it right.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

And it was like, Yeah, you're kind of right, kid.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah, yep. Over and over again. But, you know, and he had it, it's also you couldn't call him out because he always got his lines right. So, you know, some of the best footage we have, fortunately, unfortunately, is him having said the line like his tenth time through, and he's maybe not as energetic, but it's what we have and what what we worked with, and you know, I wouldn't ask anything more of my seven-year-old son. So that was that was fun. And then our dog scout, uh, she was she eight at the time, and she was easily the best actor on her mark. Like just you know. She was a rescue and we took her to training, and we thought, not in a million years the way she acted. Like we we were crate training her, and we put this little at the time she was like five pounds, and we put her in her crate at night. And the second, you maybe 30 seconds after you close the crate door, it was like the Tasmanian devil was in there. Like the crate would shake and rumble, and she's just like, okay, this dog is is insane, and we have to take it out before she hurts herself. And so we took her to obedience school, and I would have never guessed how many years she placed first in the obedience test at the end. So we probably display this ribbon, you know, first place for Scout. And so she's 11 pounds now, and if I tell her to sit, stay, do whatever, she's great at doing it. And she loves running around and playing with the kids, and she's great at you know, speaking and not speaking. Um and then she was great at just doing things over and over again. Like there's a moment where she's poking Jack with her snout in his in his chest, and she did that five times in a row, right? So, and it was just trying to figure out are we do we have the best camera angle? And you know, as a director, you're thinking, okay, we have maybe five more seconds before this does this, you know, the either the kid's gonna fail or the dog's gonna fail, right? So moments like that, you're just like, this is fantastic. And then uh again, because we had a great AD Catherine Hattam, we had one full day that you know we were wrapped. So on day 15, we just did a lot of following Scout around the house, right? So having her jump up on the bench and going to sleep and having her yawn or falling around outside or putting her in different outfits or whatever else. I mean, she had more wardrobe changes than I did, but yeah, um so it was that part was a blast, and then of course, everybody on set loved Scout, and they all, you know, everyone had a chance to hold her, and everyone had a chance to, you know, give her a treat or whatever. And um, yeah, and phenomenal. I have to say too, our crew was fantastic about not dropping food on the floor, like phenomenal because she we don't feed her people food, and so we didn't want her to have any. And I mean, it was fantastic for the house, like just very considerate crew.

SPEAKER_05 31:51

That's awesome. I'm I'm Team Scout all the way. I was I I I think it was we uh full disclosure, we did a Halloween live stream uh with uh Erin uh A and B horror movies, and um that was when I found out that Scout was your dog. I didn't know that before then. And I thought for sure you had a full-time pro dog come in with an animal handler, and like I was just I was like, that dog is rock solid in this film. And not that the rest of you all weren't. I mean, there was a it's the performances are noteworthy in this film and the emotional arc of each character, including Jack, which is a difficult little arc to go on, especially considering he was seven at the time, is just wild to me. Or five, you said five at the seven. Seven, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just such a solid performer, or solid performance from such a young performer with some really heavy material. I I just I can't say enough about it. Thank you. And the other thing that really struck me about this film, since I'm gushing, is some of the visual composition. Uh, you mentioned earlier the wide shots and lingering on those wide shots for as long as possible. And I think that was a really wise call because your eye for composition is noteworthy. And I'm curious what the storyboards were because uh, and there's one shot, and I can't tell you the context of this shot, so you have to see the movie, and you'll see it when I when I describe around it, you'll know what I'm talking about. There is some deeply devastating action happening in the background, and just a shot of a rope in the foreground, and the rope is in focus, and the rest of the action in the background is slightly out of focus just due to the nature of the lens you're using. And I think it's just such a good visual representation of not only the circumstances laid out literally right in front of you, but also what I imagine those circumstances would feel like uh in the moment as the character is just a little bit fuzzy and out of focus because of how traumatic it is. It's just such a good visual metaphor, uh, and it's so beautiful to look at, and it's so heartbreakingly devastating for me personally and the type of horror that I'm interested in. So I just have to I have to gush about this. But I guess this is a long-winded way of asking you, were there specific visual influences that we didn't talk about yet in the in the in your composition or or on you as a director? And what was your philosophy with some of your composition work? So that's that's very astute of you to catch that.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

So again, thank you for catching that. Um Thank you for saying so. Well, it's true, because I think you know, a lot of people enjoy movies, and I think the majority of people probably enjoy movies and they don't know why, right? Like they don't know what to put their finger on and what you know, what made the secret sauce so good or whatever. And so the few that do, it is very it feels great to be able to discuss it, right? Because they feel like on another level it's so rewarding. But uh, I'm a big fan of Boca. So my script is like littered with Boca. So I'm sure when Bo Hocala, the DP, read it the first time, he's like, oh my gosh. Like, you know, you know, I feel like like you said, life's most calamitous moments, your most stressful moments, everything around you in your mind's eye gets fuzzy because you're so stressed in the moment, whether it's you know, tragedy or elation or whatever, right? You you really your senses come in, they're not blown out at 180 degrees, they're more focused on this one area. And sometimes when you get information that is like you know, it like I said, it's very devastating, everything is kind of cloudy and everything's fuzzy, and you don't remember things as well, and you know, you're not focused. And so I think you need to have that analogy seen on screen. And I love you know, having you know, dealt with a lot of stress uh in my previous life, or you know, having having been through a lot of stuff, I think it's very common that when you get devastating news, there's there's kind of one thing that your brain, I think, as an ego defense mechanism, focuses on kind of just one inanimate object somewhere, right? Like you just pick up on something and it might be a pen on the floor. In fact, well what was that uh lethal weapon one, two, or three, I don't remember, but uh Mel Gibson's character is talking about when he got the news that his wife was killed, right? And I think he goes through this whole monologue where he collapsed on the floor and he saw this pen on the flo uh, you know, under the couch, and all he could do is focus on the pen. And I think that whoever wrote that was was right and had dealt with grief at one point because I think when you do get terrible, horrific news that is shocking to your system, you're only able to focus on that one thing. And it you don't really choose what that is, it just happens to be what you see in that moment and that your brain is trying to save you from. And I and I liked using being able to choose what those moments are where we use the blue tether twice, right, for those moments. I wanted to kind of not necessarily bookend things, but in the first scene that you see it, it's kind of building the awareness of what it is, right? And then in the scene you're talking about is the ultimate devastation. Um but we also used a lot of because the environment, the exterior environment of the trees and the woods, uh, I wanted to keep in mind, you know, in the script that I wanted to show, because we are a zombie film, I wanted to show the juxtaposition of living beauty with something dead. So we'll have you know, we'll have we'll hold a shot of like a of some green a fir tree, the green branch, you know, and it's got some ice on it, and then the snow in the background representing, you know, life and death. Um and then in the in the big room that we're in now, we have all this life happening. You have these kids and this man on the treadmill, and you have a dog and everything, but then there's the plant in the background that's dying. Right. So I wanted to do like, and we focus on a leaf, you know, a dead leaf or whatever. So I wanted to do that to maybe subliminally put it in there, um, but also to for people like Cinephiles to be able to go, oh yeah, okay, I'm I'm getting the feels of this, right? Because I think for a lot of people, and and I think something that gets overlooked, especially in horror, is that people assume horror fans are stupid, and we're quite the opposite, right? We need so much stimulation, and we pick up everything to shot composition because if we're live if it's a good story, we're living vicariously through those characters. We're investigating every scene and we're waiting for either clues or the killer or something phenomenal or whatever in every setup, right? For a good for a really good film. And so I wanted to place those elements in there because you know, I love horror, and so I wanted to do that. I don't, I'm sure they do that in other, you know, dramas or or whatever else, but I don't think to the to the depth of of horror. And I think again, because uh horror fans, we have such complex minds and we need to be stimulated and we're sharp, right? Yeah. And I think that's why our community, I know if you're not in the horror community, it's like, how do you why do you like horror movies? Or aren't you, you know, are you is there something wrong with you that you like blood and guts? And it's like that's such a oversimplification of what we like, right? And it's it's the opposite. And so that's why you get the nicest people who love horror, right? It's it's has nothing to do with our taste and more to do with our brains, right?

SPEAKER_05 39:45

And I think we externalize a lot of the fears that we have through horror. We we project them on that movie screen and we can deal with them safely. And I think it's about empathy as well, which is why I think character work is so important in horror films. Even if you have a high-octane, fast-paced movie, you still have to have moments for it to breathe. And for us to either like or pointedly dislike the Canon Fodder characters, uh, which, you know, there's not many of them in this film. Uh I think that everybody who's dislikable in this film uh earns their dislike. But there's not a single character, even antagonist-wise, who isn't acting out of some sort of love and some sort of grounded uh emotional need. So it's really yeah, really well balanced uh empathy-wise.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Thank you. That's exactly it. Like I want so the antagonist is a is a mirror, mirror antagonist to the so Brett Carson is a is a mirror antagonist to the woman, the mother, right? And if in another world he would be played by Liam Neeson and he'd be doing whatever it takes to find his daughter, right? Yeah, he would be very sympathetic. And I think I wanted to make him sympathetic in this movie, you know, with some major flaws, but he and the woman, you know, that there's a lot of tone, the a lot of the themes we have deal, you know, revolve around family, right? And he's searching for his missing daughter, and he says to the woman, you know, what would you do if this happened to your kids, if your kids were missing? What would you do to save them? And it's like, yeah, this is Liam Neeson and 15 of his other movies, right? Um, and we follow him and he does whatever it takes to find his kids. And and then in this instance, he's butting heads against a woman that's gonna do whatever it takes to protect her kids, right? So that's that's kind of what we have. But then also in order to get his just desserts, he does have you know, the way he goes about finding his kids and his moral compass when it comes to other things that I don't want to give away, um, make him a bad person. Right. And and he's trying to pass those bad teachings on to his next generation of of kids in his community. And so that's where I draw it.

SPEAKER_05 42:15

Every good villain uh believes they're doing the right thing. You can't play from an actor's point of view, and I'm sure you've encountered this in your career as well, you can't play a villain as a villain, or else it just reads paper thin. They have to believe they're doing what is best for themselves and the people they care about, and in some cases the greater humanity. Yep. Um it's just their their methods are are flawed. Yes. And you mentioned family as a theme, and I think that is again at the heart of this film. Family, chosen family, um, duty to family, duty to others, uh, duty to protect those weaker than you. Um and and a subtler theme with the man is that self-actualization, that self-change, self-improvement as a theme, and what do you do with it once you've achieved it? I wonder if there's something, and I authors always balk at this question. Directors are always willing to jump in, so I wonder how it's going to play when I ask it here. But is there something you want the audience to do, think, or feel, something you want them to leave with after they've consumed, uncontained?

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Yeah, actually the goal of the movie was to say, you know, again, so there's a there's a professor, I think he's a USC, um, but his name is Howard Suber, and he's a statistician and a film uh history. Uh, I think he has degree in one degree in both. And so he used statistics of the top 100 films of all time and said, you know, what are and he encoded everything, right? And went through that all that boring statistical stuff to find out what five, I think five elements or seven elements of. The most interesting and memorable films in our history, what are those seven common elements that they all have, right? And one of them is that there's a relationship triangle, right? And that and there's not just one, but there's multiple relationship triangles that intersect. And then the other is that the intermediary starts off on his on the hero's journey, right? But he never really gets what he wants at the end. Right. So he goes through this process, he develops, and at the end, he and generally he's a scarred hero. He's an ant, you know, something terrible has happened to him in the past, and he doesn't quite get what he wants at the end. And and and he sheds his identity that you started with. And I think he used high noon as an example, right? Like at the end of it, you have a sheriff who's no longer a sheriff, and he goes off with his wife, who's no longer, I mean, I believe she's a Mormon, and she ends up shooting somebody in the back, right? So she's shed her identity as well, and then he's given up his sense of community because they gave up on him, and he rides off in on the wagon with her at the end. Um, and I think that's kind of, you know, and I also to be, and like you said, of course I'm gonna dive into this because I'm a director and not an author, but uh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's I fashion the structure of the film on uh Leone Carbucci Western. And so he does he was famous for doing all the Django movies with Guy Nero. Um and he was his fortune and his misfortune and fortune was that he was making movies at the same time as Sergio Leone. So he was kind of the overshadowed Italian Western guy, right? But his films are phenomenal because his characters always start off the anti-hero has this like superpower of some kind. He's the either the fastest gun or he's the most accurate gun, or he's got a gigantic gatling gun under his coat that you know is makes him indestructible or whatever. And then uh something happens in the course of the story where the hero loses that superpower, right? And I think I can't remember which film it is, but one of them is his hands get crushed, right? So what what use is a gunslinger who can't use his fingers? Yeah. And so the hero has to now come to terms with his own identity and who he truly is and how he can adapt and use his true heroic self, his true courage comes from you know not being able to do something well and easily, but doing something in the face of danger where you're probably gonna lose. Um, you know, and he does that very well, and so a lot of his characters end up still winning, but they're they're have on one hand this new self-actualization, the discovery of self, but on the other hand, they're never gonna be the same physically or mentally as they started out and it had been built building themselves up to that point in their life. And then they also generally never get the girl. So that's I kind of I want to follow that structure, and that's why there's a couple of shootouts, and that's why there's a couple standoffs, and there's you know, so really it's a horror western without the western. But very cold western. Yeah, very cold, exactly. Yeah, our average temperature was negative 13. Um, we're very fortunate we had I mean, some of the scenes we were shooting were in four feet of snow. Like some of the some of the stuff, and then and then when I was on the I don't want to give it away what the scene is, but I'm on a lake in one of the scenes, and that day the wind chill was forty some degrees below zero. And so I can point to where I'm like, and I'm way out in the lake by myself because it's a really wide shot. Um, and then Bo had this like phenomenal lens so he could get, you know, really pull in and get tight. But um while we were doing that, I my face was so cold, and I thought, is this what frostbite feels like? Because then it got really warm, and I was like, uh-oh, well, I don't need an ear. I've got you know, at the time I had long hair, I'm like, no one will know. Like, you know, I just troubled up, right? But uh I hope you got the shot. But um, yeah, that was so that was fun, and but it it looked, you know, we couldn't have been more fortunate that it just so happened on that day there was a snowstorm, you know, and the wind was insane and the the snow was phenomenal. And you know, we had a uh a great uh drone operator named Mario Howard, and he was able to navigate his drone in 40, you know, negative 40 mile, you know, degree temperature. I don't know what how fast the winds are, the wind gusts are, but he's able to to keep his drone in the air in that temperature, because usually any kind of electronic equipment at that temp those temperatures just cease to function. And so both of them, you know, there's a lot of credit due to their craft and their expertise in being able to operate those machines at that in that environment. So, you know, a lot of that it hats off to them. But um, yeah, it was a blast. I mean, it's you really get tight with your crew when you almost die a few times doing your stunts. I imagine. Yeah. Like it's because in your head, you're like, okay, I have to do what it takes, I can do this, and oh, it's not so bad. And having grown up in this environment, you're like, oh, I I can handle this. This is you know, but um when I shot the naked scene, we the idea was we do it once, and then I go warm up, right? Um the first shot we did, for whatever reason, there's a failure. So I had to convince myself to reset and do it, you know. And once you see the scene, you're gonna be like, well, that sucks. But you know, so I had my brain had to force my body into doing it again. And then on the second time I came out and they immediately wrapped me in a in a robe and some towels, and then we jumped into this truck that was waiting that was warm. And I'm sitting in the truck and I was looking at my legs and they wouldn't stop shaking. Yeah. And I was like using all my brain power to tell my legs to stop moving, and I couldn't.

unknown 50:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

And it was just so that moment, and then Bo, the DP, jumped in the car with us, and he's like looking at me. He's like, Do we need to take you to the hospital? He's like, I think we should go to the hospital. And I'm like, No, I'm fine, you know, whatever. And he's like, I think this is what hypothermia is. And I'm just like, no, it's it'll be fine. So did we get the shot? Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah. Forget all that. Show me the shot. Like, you know, like, come on, let's get so um and and to be fair too, we had a lot of uh like Peter Omera from Ireland, and we had all the bad guys essentially were uh from LA. So his daughter, her boy, her dumb ass boyfriend, like he says lovingly every time, um Courtney, Courtney Turk and uh Brad Zimmerman, they're both from LA. Um, and they asked, well, in coming over, if if uh they asked interesting questions that you just wouldn't know, but they would ask things like, you know, are my eyeballs gonna freeze? You know, do I have to worry about my fingers falling off? Do I have to worry about, you know, how do I keep my feet warm or whatever? And it was like, you know, we'll take care of you. It'll be fine. Like, you know, it'll be a great experience. And and to a lot to Peter Mero's, I mean, uh, he he deserves a medal because he came on his own dime. He came a week early to climatize, and then he loved the area so much, he stayed four days later just in case we needed a pickup day. But uh, he also went sightseeing and he loved, he's absolutely fell in love with the winner. And so he was a everyone was great to work with. Uh Peter was phenomenal. We're also friends forever now, too. And and he was just fantastic to work with. Such a great character actor. If you've seen him in Banda Brothers or Nightfall, he's different, like completely convincing and different every time. I don't think he's ever done his actual accent in any movie. Um and he's he's just he's got a great sense of humor, and he's such a you know, like a lot of actors, you know, like you, for instance, he has a great eye for detail. But I think that eye for detail also comes because of there's a fascination with life, right? And so he has this great fascination with life, which is very inspiring. So I love talking to him. Um, but other other than Courtney Brett and Peter, everyone in the movie it was their first time and me, uh, outside of us, it was everyone's first time doing a movie. So the the sheriff, the um, my wife is actually my wife, Nick. Yeah, um, the woman that plays my wife in the movie, it was her first film, her first I think it was her first time acting ever. She was a Miss Minnesota winner, and uh we had actually cast a different actor, and that actor was got sick, and so she couldn't come, so we had to cast the like less than 24 hours before, and we were able to get Allison Crandall to play the wife in all the dream sequences, and then and then the other sequences that I won't tell. But um it was her first time ever acting, and she was phenomenal, and then uh Jack Brook and Scout. But my wife Nick was I mean, not only was it her first time acting, she knew what she was getting into because she's the first person to read the script, and she's like, you know, you're sure I can, you know, you want me to do this and everything. I said, absolutely, no one's gonna be a better mom to the kids, no one's gonna, you know, you can do all the stuff, and the you're a badass to begin with, and you're very believable. Uh, but she did her normal day job for 50, 60 hours a week, and then she and the kids are staying in an Airbnb because I didn't want them at the at the house where we were shooting. Yeah. And then she was taking care of the kids on top of it and acting. So she was great too.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

She was great.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's a I always I always uh try and champion her for whenever anyone says, well, you know, here are my five favorite final girls. Can you guys think of anyone else? And I'm always like, oh, Nick Nelson from Uncontained is the woman. Like, you know, she's phenomenal. Like she's a total badass. And she take, I mean, no one takes a punch or handles a sniper rifle like you know, Nick does.

SPEAKER_05 54:48

Without spoiling anything, yeah, just a shocking entrance in that in that scene. No, really, I I didn't I didn't realize that was her first uh her first go. That was it's a commendable performance and again vital to the heart and soul of this film. Yeah. Um I wonder, and I know I know we're running uh right up against the amount of time we had allotted for this, but I wonder, were there, without spoiling the film, were there any shots or sequences you really looked forward to doing? I know there were probably some that gave you some uh fear, like the naked scene or um you know some of the colder aspects, but was there anything you really looked forward to doing? Oh Vince, I love being naked.

SPEAKER_04 55:24

If I could be naked right now, listen, if you two would let us, I would be fine with it. You were jacked in that movie, you were ripped, so like, hey, let's uh let's let's get some clicks.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

Um yeah. No, um I you know it's interesting. Overall, it's this weird, you know, to have this moment in time that my family will always share and will always have the experience of, but also to have captured it on film. So if it happens to be playing in our house on a tablet and we walk by and it's like, oh yeah, that's you know, well, that's kind of weird. Like it's it's that's us, but we're in a movie that everyone's watching or whatever. And so that part is interesting, but the memories that we had of doing it together together was just phenomenal. And I don't, it's one of the core memories of our lives for all of us. But I know Jack really looked forward to one of the shootout scenes with the Nerf gun where he racks it and he gives away that line. Uh he loved, like he was so happy doing that. That we used the least happy take of him doing that, and you know, so I mean the first few takes, you're just so pumped and happy to do that, that you know, or whatever. Um but uh and I I think as a parent, you know, what your kids love, you love ten times more going, you know, seeing it through their eyes. So I think there was that. Um I but I really look forward to the knife scenes. Like I just as an actor, I think as an actor I love doing like projecting or or not projecting, but I don't know, just the moments of the non-verbal, non-dialogue stuff. I love hanging on those moments. Um and really think trying to convey what I'm feeling through just being physical and silent, but also the kind of the you know, I I s I've stolen a lot of looks and movements from I watch a lot of interviews with Anthony Hopkins because I think he's a phenomenal physical, you know, as far as British actors go, I think you have Jeffrey Rush, you know, who is a trained mime. You have Anthony Hopkins, who's fantastic in everything he does. Um but he's and then and then you know, today and Tom Hardy, right? Like they really pause in their moments of acting, right? And they you really feel whatever they're making you feel, right? And I and I always loved what um Michael Cain said, and he's you know, he said, love the camera and step into it when your instincts are to step away. And I, you know, there's a lot to I don't want to sound like an Anglophile, but you know, there's a lot of I love the the British style of acting, and whether it's you know, Lubbock or or uh you know method acting or whatever, they seem to really have a I think it's a lot to do with cup, you know, coming up in the theater as well. Right? Yeah, 100%. Right. Like I think if you're like I was a classically trained actor in college, and so I love that stuff, but um yeah, the physicality of it, but also you know, I like the stoicness of a lot of the um, you know, there's a lot of I don't want to say I'm so I'm indigenous, and there's a lot of indigenous actors who are very stoic in their performances, but at the same time as being still and calm, there's so much emotion, there's so much being emitted at the same time behind the eyes, and I think there's a lot of eye acting that comes from whether it's Māori from New Zealand or if it's um a tribe indigenous United States, I think you have a lot of great actors where just watching their soul through their eyes are phenomenal. So I stole a lot of that as well. But I did I did really get into the kind of the kind of doing the you know, kind of the moments where I know I think Peter Laurie did it, or I can't remember who played Phantom of the Opera, the original Phantom of the Opera. That was uh that's gonna kill me.

SPEAKER_05 59:53

I don't think it was. Oh, I might oh I'm gonna lose my horror card today. I love that film, and I can't think of who it was. Um was it wasn't Lori, was it? No, was it Bella Lagosi? What did he I'm gonna go? I'm gonna Google this. This is so not interesting. Please. Yeah. But yeah, he was at Lon Cheney.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

Was it Lon Cheney? Lon Cheney. Thank you. See, we knew it wasn't right, right? But yeah, yeah. So Lon Cheney. We're gonna edit that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:22

Yeah, go in, go in knowing the answer with Lon Cheney. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Yeah, because we're gonna lose all listeners at that moment. No, uh yeah, that he did this thing famous where he like to be that's kind of freaky, is like, and then Anthony Hopkins did it in The Science of the Lambs, but he does this thing where he has his head down and his head comes up and then his eyes follow. And that's something unsettling about that. So I I wanted to take, I mean, that's just one example, but I would use a lot of examples of of kind of my favorite actors that for this character of the man I wanted to incorporate because he's not. I mean, yeah, like like my son said, he's a small part of me, but you know, that is I love I'm I love talking and I love being happy and exciting and I love engaging people. I am I'm probably only like the man when I'm around my kids and I'm mad at them for not picking up or something like that, then a little bit of the man comes out, but no, um, and I don't stink. Just so we're clear on that. I am not stinky.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:21

But um I think I think that's a good thing to note right now, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:24

Yeah, right, right. Yeah, because I think the most popular line uh from the movie is you know, you big stinky idiot or whatever. But I know Jack enjoyed saying because he said it about 50 times. You sure I'm saying it right? You big stinky idiot. Come on, Brooke, or whatever. But um, yeah, so he he got a kick out of that. But um, yeah, I think making film is a blessing, it's phenomenal. You get to, it's cathartic as an actor, um, it's revealing as a as a director, and it and it's I don't know, it's kind of emotionally vulnerable as a writer, right? Like you had mentioned, right? You're really putting yourself out there and there's nothing worse than opening night, and you're waiting for the reviews to come in and you're praying to God that they don't suck, right? Like, oh, please just one. You're hoping for that one that doesn't, you know, isn't killing you. Um and that's when you think about it, that's kind of insane, right? Like that's you're you're hanging your art on the wall for people to spit on. And if you're very, very fortunate and lucky, people don't spit on it and they enjoy it, right? And then they tell other people to to go enjoy the art. So that's kind of you know, and we've been very blessed with that. Like we're super fortunate that um Gen Z really loves our film, and we just kind of took off and um having the 40 million views now and growing, um I mean it's just kind of even as I say it, it doesn't feel real. Sure. Because it's just like, is that we were just hoping to get the film done and you know, hopefully on on a platform. Um, and then you know, and then when we're getting multiple offers, Charlie, the the producer, editor, and I were looking at each other like, I is this I don't know, is it good? Like we we think it's good, but does is really or is this something they say to everybody? And then it came out, and you know, we had some critically great, you know, nice reviews, and we were very fortunate. We're super excited about that. And then you're kind of in this weird limbo phase where people are watching the film and they're not really saying anything or they're not doing anything. And then one day, I I mean, I just I remember one day waking up and I got about five to ten emails within an hour, and everyone's saying, like, oh my gosh, what did you do? What it you know, is did you say something or do something, or why is this blowing up? Like people, you know, whatever. And then it was like at that moment, it was like 20 million views, and we're like, What? And then from there it was just every 10 days, it was in like another 10 million views, and another 10. So, and then now we've slowed down now. Now we're down to about a million new views a week or every 10 days, but um, that's insane just saying that now, right? Like, right? That's something. It's yeah, so it's crazy, it's a crazy place to be. Um, and you just it doesn't, you know, like you're just like, oh like wow, that's I guess we did do it right, or we, you know, we it did work out. So um I'm very I'm also like it's very scary in a sense because I put my family out there as well. And yeah, you know, if people hated it, then and we do get hate, right? Like I every week I have to put in a request IMDb to take down some racist comment about my character or the way I look or whatever. Um there if only had one instance where someone said something really disgusting about the kids, um, but IMDB has been fat. They'll they'll take content down in like 20 seconds. Um whereas, you know, online it's a little tougher because that just lives there forever, right? And some people, you know, it's interesting how 90% of the people that say really horrible things, either it's a burner account with zero posts and some weird name with numbers in it, right? Yeah, or it's a bot. And it's amazing how many likes those comments get. And that those have ranged from everything from like I and I you know what I'm talking about because you've seen the movie, but it's insane to me that someone says, it's so obvious it a jiff jar. Like the you know, so we used a peanut butter jar, but obviously we didn't want to get involved with any kind of trademarking, and so our we have the We had this phenom amazing, phenomenal production designer, prop master named Jason Dean Thomas. Insane movie guy. Like just fantastic movie guy. And the eye for detail on everything, minuscule to grand. Uh he was it's I still can't believe what a great job he did. But he made a peanut butter jar that says goobers on it. And yeah, you know, the comments like I think it's a gif jar, and it got like 800 likes. It's like, well, okay, right. It is it was a gif jar at one point, probably, but you know, or or Peter Pan, I don't know. But you know, really, does that matter? Or yeah, that's yeah. Somebody's like, the dog, you know, did the dog live at the end? Because I he was he was fantastic, and I wrote back, he does. That's a spoiler, but he does, or she does. I said, and she's fantastic. That's an acceptable spoiler. Yeah, yeah. And she's fantastic. She's fantastic. And they wrote back in all caps, he is wonderful. And I was just like, okay, I'm not gonna argue with you, but I'm pretty sure I know the gender of my dog, unless I've been really mistaken all these years. But um, you know, so it's it's insane, like what people pick out, or you know, some people just the you can tell they're not horror fans, because on one of the posts I have on my Instagram account, somebody I mean, it's like a page of they describe the entire movie. And it's like what you know, come on, really like you're gonna ruin the whole movie for everyone. Unfortunately, there's a bunch of really great like the other thing that I love about the horror community is we're all pretty sharp, and so it is pretty hilarious to read some of the the comebacks and the comments and the memes and everything else that people post. Um but yeah, some people, you know, for whatever reason they're unhappy and then they want to make other people unhappy, but whatever. Um, I'm I shouldn't complain because it's a majority of you know 99.9% of all the the fans of the movie are phenomenal. They're super nice, they reach out and they all it's funny when they ask if it's my actual family, because not once has someone asked me that and not presented it in a very considerate way. Like, I hope I'm not being intrusive, or I don't mean to upset you, or I hope I'm not overstepping, or whatever. They always preface it with something and it and it's you know, I I you for sure get that in the drama community, right? But you know, you're not gonna get that in any other community, especially the you know, comedy community, right? They're they're just gonna get to be alive. But um everyone I think the the horror fans are just something like you said, we're empathetic, right? And then they understand that now there's a clear division between the characters and the fact that those characters are actually real people in the in the form of a whole entire family. And so that's been that's been very nice. So uh yeah, it's it's uh I think you know we're prepping to do the a prequel to the movie. That's so you know, we're we hope we're shooting that in February. Um and we're really looking looking forward to that. And that wouldn't have been remotely possible without the support of people like you and you know, other influencers like you, and you know, true fans that you know you're not just servicing the horror community, you're talking about things that are true to your heart, which happens to be true to our hearts. And so I think when you're genuine like that, um, you know, people follow and tend to enjoy it. And so you know, anything, any kind of art you create that's for uh other people because you truly love it. I mean that's a wonderful thing. And I think so all that was to answer your question. That's what I want people to get from the film is that we're not more dissimilar than we are similar. And that's why I have the one voiceover of the man at the end. I won't give away what the line is, but that's the whole purpose of the film, the whole goal of the film is that you know we're all I may not understand you, but you're you know, we're all in this together, right? Yeah. I may I think the actual phrase is I may not understand you, but I love you. And that's what it comes down to. And I think, you know, right, uh all through history we've we've had moments where one or two things really tries to divide us as a people, you know, whether it's the United States or the world, right? At the end of the day, we are so much more alike than anything else. And I don't know why we fight that because we do great things when we come together, right? So absolutely. Yeah, and that's the goal of the film with zombies.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:00

I and honestly, we we I feel like the need to state that it this is a zombie film, but uh what what speaks to me, and it's a good zombie film that challenges your expectations of what the genre is and could be. But at the end of the day, I keep coming back to these relationships and the and the emotional heart of the film, and uh that's just uh it speaks to the strength of the film in general. And I also want to just call out one thing that you said. It's lovely whenever the fans come to your, come to your, not your aid, but uh have your back in the comments. And I also want to say one thing, I want to go on record and say that race plays so little a role in this film that any racism that you get is absolute bullshit. And I just want to say that out loud. Um and I because I think it needs to be said. But our goal here as a media company or as a as an influencer or reviewer is to be the champion for voices that are, you know, independent voices or independent artists and and uplift those because we remember, my wife and I remember what it was like in the trenches making art that, you know, maybe maybe 500 people were there that night, or maybe there was five, and you never knew, and you put your heart and your soul and your personal money into this, and you put your time into this, and you delayed we I delayed having kids for a decade. I delayed buying a house until the houses were nearly unaffordable. Um, and I'm, you know, lucky to be in the position I'm in, but we put off life goals to make art for people to consume. And we remembered what it was like to not necessarily have a champion. And so to be in this space and to have the opportunity to champion work of artists like you and other independent voices that are out there, it means the world to us. And we take that responsibility extremely seriously and know that our words, we may not be the biggest channel around, but our words mean something, and they can do real harm as well as they can do uh offer real help. So uh I it's it's interesting that you mention the horror community in that context because that is the reason that we exist, and and it there's never a day go that goes by that I press record that I don't have the impact of my words in mind. And so, yeah, it's existing in the horror space is truly a special thing, and it's always a privilege. And I'm I'm so grateful to all of you who've made it this far into this interview because I think the there's some really beautiful things uh that Morley was saying. Well, we have two questions. That was very well. That was wonderful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:21

Thanks.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:22

I appreciate that. Um, and uh, you know, I I mean every I mean every word of it. And people who listen to this podcast have probably heard a variation of that before, and I hope it never gets old hearing it, because I think we all have to keep in mind our words and our behaviors online all they all have meaning. Uh one straight comment can get 800 likes, and that comment could tear a movie down if you're not careful. So um even if you're user 58279, right? You have a responsibility out there. So um, but anyway, I get I could I could I could soapbox all day on this. I feel so like I when I say I'm grateful to be here, I really do mean it because uh I get I get so passionate. But we have two questions we ask everybody, and then I'm gonna want to hear where people can find you, and I'm gonna want to talk about what you're working on next. So I hope you'll indulge me. Um, first, and I'd planned on asking you what your favorite zombie film is, but you can substitute that with Western because I do think that you make a really valid point that this is as much a Western as it is a zombie film. So give me something for my watch list, give our listeners and viewers something for their watch list. What is your favorite zombie and or Western film? Wow, that's tough.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

I think. You know what's crazy about loving horror for so long is that you have such, I mean, we've had a boom in content in the last 10 years that there's just so much out there that it, you know, really depends, I feel like, on where you are in life at the moment or your mood or whatever. I don't know that I have any solid number of the top five horror films of all time because it's ultimately evolving. And I think the films that we're getting now have been so heavily influenced by films that have been heavily influenced by other films, right, that it's hard to get away from, you know, it and it and it I know it sounds cliche, but whenever you say Jaws or Alien or whatever, it's hard to have a conversation about any film today that wasn't in some way, shape, or form influenced, knowingly or not, by those films from the 70s and 80s that really got into the horror, like really developed into horror that is today. Um but to you know, same with the Western. The Western, you know, the a lot of them are evergreen in the sense that it was a really interesting time. We're not the only country to have cowboys, certainly, but we're probably the most popular cow, you know, cowboys in the world. Um and I I I guess the top cowboy movies I l I love Quiggly Down Under with uh oh what like in I think of his name, Tom Selleck. And uh I love that and uh the uh he just just passed away. He was uh Severus Snape, like Alan Rickman. Alman Rickman, fan phenomenal, phenomenal bad guy in that movie. Um takes place in the street. One of my favorites of all time. Yeah, right. Amazing. The if if for people that haven't seen it, the ending, I just love the surprise ending, right? Because this part of this character, and again, going back to the Garbucci westerns, was his identity was was so married to this rifle, right? And then the twist at the end, which you assume the whole time, well, shame on you for assuming, just like the bad guy, that he wasn't good with something, right? Was just I love that twist. Uh, I love the tone of that movie. Something that I think you don't have today is that in the 80s and 90s, you were able to mix tones, right? When you think about it, like especially action movies, you had so many one-liners that you just absolutely could not have today because that when you mix tones, people are like, What am I watching? Right, and I think that will kind of define the 2020, you know, 2020s is or 2010s, 2020s, is that we all had single tone. Every genre is single tone, right? Flat, right? This is a horror movie, this is the tone that's set, this is the way it is, right? You can't have com you can have a little bit of comedy, but nothing like you used to have in the 80s and 90s. Yeah. So I think with with that said, Westernwise, I love, and I forget it's an Italian director, and I forget his name, but he did a movie called Um and Nothing to Harishon White or done by Kevin Costner. But I just love Tombstone with you know with Kurt Russell. I think Westernwise, it's just got everything you could possibly want in a Western. Um, you know, Dances with Wolves, I think, is another another great Western. Um, and I this is gonna be no surprise, but you know, Jeremiah Johnson with Robert Redford, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:15

I've not seen that one. Okay. I need to I need to add it to my list. I love a good western, I need to see that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:20

So that the there's been a a few different film critics have written up pieces on our movie, and they've said this our movie is a reverse Jeremiah Johnson, and they were one billion percent correct. That was really where I was so um there's that, and then zombie-wise, there's just so many that I there's uh French one called Lahorde that I love.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:44

Uh I have to add it to my list. This is I this is a selfish question. I I fill out my watch list uh in the edit of these podcast episodes because uh all of our guests have such great taste, and uh yeah, I have to check it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

Yeah. It's a phenomenal it's like a coming together of community in this apartment building. There's a zombie outbreak, the you know, apocalypse is happening, but it's just starting, and you have this spattering of just crazy people that live in this really low-income housing complex that come together and fight these zombies, and it's just the the characters are interesting, French films are a little wacky always, right? But you know, fun. Uh I know a lot of I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, but I love World War Z with Brad Pitt. I thought it was a strong, you know, ton of action, ton of zombies, just gigantic tentpole film done well. Yeah, of course I love Zack Snyder's zombies, you know, the his his remake, um Dawn of the Dead was I thought was fantastic with the fast zombies at that time. It still I think holds up. Uh I love his camera style of uh what was the the late the latest zombie one he did in Las Vegas. I can't remember the name of it. Um I didn't see that one. So it's he shot it himself, and what I loved about the way he shot it is he shot it very shallow, so everything felt claustrophobic. Like we were talking about before, the danger was out of focus on the peripheries. So he did a really good job of that. Um not my favorite of his of his uh storylines, but you know, the way he shot it I thought was great, a lot of a lot of excellent action. But George Romero's under the water, you know, Living Dead, I think, still one of the ultimate, I mean, just character development alone, right? And then what he did was so little, and then making it public domain by his choice, phenomenal. Like it just the the messaging that he gave, the choices he did, especially for I think it was in 1968 that he made that movie, right? So phenomenal for its time, and without him, we would not have I mean, without him, we won't have The Walking Dead. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:00

Yeah, I totally agree. It just I sit here about an hour and 20 minutes away from that cemetery in Evan City and about 30, 40 minutes away from the mall where they filmed Dawn of the Dead. In fact, at the time of this recording, you all have probably seen this by now, but I uh just did a behind-the-scenes tour of Monroeville Mall, and it is just like coming home. Unfortunately, I don't know how long that mall will be with us, so it was uh that was a now or never situation. Yeah. That's right. I watched those.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:27

They're in your top two stories on Page angle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was great coverage. Um, so is it weird to be in that mall?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:36

Yeah, uh, it it's always weird. It always feels like coming home. And I I've been there a number of times and did some scouting on my own, but uh there's a man, Lawrence De Vincennes, he's a Romero scholar, he's worked with Vinegar Syndrome. He did the um second sight mall tour for on the on the Dawn of the Dead 4K. He helped kind of consult on that. He does a tour that is I've matched this marble pattern with this shot, here's where that shot was taken, take took place. I matched this floor pattern with this shot, here's where that took place. We went back into the control room, we went to the hallway, we went to the stairway that leads up to the loft. You can't go to the loft itself because that was filmed in a building in downtown Pittsburgh next to the image 10 offices. Um, but yeah, it was he's like, these pipes where Peter's playing racquetball on the roof are in this shot, but he hits the ball and then it falls over across the mall into the front main entrance. And so those shots are composed. It looks like it's uh, you know, one location, but it's three. I mean, he was like detailed. This guy's amazing. If anybody ever comes across Lawrence De Vincent on Facebook or wherever else, uh, know that he's a serious collector. He has awesome items for sale. And if you ever get the chance to bend his ear about Romero, I could go on. He's a good guy. Good guy. But yeah, um, big fan of Dawn of the Dead over here.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:49

Yeah. Phenomenal film. Yeah, they the so you get to see the glass doors to the first store that they hide in.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:58

Uh so that um JC Penny's was demolished. That like uh and and uh let hang on a second. Nope, it's not over here. I have an old, an old um map of the mall. But um, they knocked that part of the mall down where Penny's was and they put in a cinemark. So those doors are now, you can see the line where the mall ends and the new construction begins. Those doors, right at that line, is gone, unfortunately. In fact, the only store that was uh remaining in the mall from the time of shooting in in 79, 78, 79, um was just closed in like August or uh uh of last year or September of last year. So it's been about nine to ten months or so since that store had closed. Uh all the rest of the stores, if they are still in the mall, like JCPenney, have moved locations. Ah, that's too bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:46

So the is the like the fern, I don't remember what it was, like the potted plants or whatever where Tom Zavini does like comes in. Is that still there?

SPEAKER_05 1:23:56

The um the archway, the little bridge that was there, is gone. It was removed in 2015. It's in the custody of the Heinz History Center now, although not on display. Um the pond was removed well earlier in the 80s or 90s, and then the the burial section where they buried um Roger is now oh, what is that now? Probably just midway of them all. The the pond area with the bridge is now a set of ride-on like quarter-operated cars, which my daughter absolutely loves. And I was like, I wonder if you because she has no interest in riding any of those things anywhere else. I'm like, do you know? Do you have like a this two-year-old intuition that that is a historical place uh that means something to dad? But um, yeah, no, it's it's it's weird seeing how disjointed the mall is as compared to how it is told narratively. Like you go down this hallway, then you're at the security area, and then the security area leads to the stairs. They are on opposite ends of the mall. The security area is on the first floor, the hallway is on the second floor, the stairs are you know in from the basement up in a different area of the mall. And and Romero's storytelling, the way he envisioned it, uh, is executed completely differently than the layout of the mall. In fact, one of the doors that they barricade with the car they're driving around is on the second floor. Um, and so they get the car from the first floor, they go to this one entrance, but there's only two mall entrances on the first floor, one maybe, that still exists. So the second entrance they barricade is upstairs. Like obviously the car didn't go upstairs. Right. But it's just really good storytelling, visual storytelling. So yeah. Really interesting mall tour. It and it's available, publicly available. You can buy tickets uh at the next Living Dead weekend if if if you want to come out to Pittsburgh and hang out. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:44

For the absolutely before the mall's gone, that's gonna have to be a must. But yeah. Right. I agree. Just just way ahead of his time. But um So I'm gonna ask you a question and then and then you know, I don't know if you you don't need to answer, but would do you consider Michael Myers or Jason Voorhees are they zombies?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:11

That's a phenomenal question. Um, because the first video we recorded for this channel, I listed zombie Jason as one of my favorite slashers. I worry that in the early Friday the 13th movies, probably one through, well, two through four, we're punching down at someone with a disability. Yeah. But when we get to six and he's reanimated, I think he's a zombie, and I think that we no longer are necessarily punching down at someone or or villainizing someone with a disability. And so Zombie Jason is fair game and he's a ton of fun. Um, Michael, I think, is maybe less of well, depending on what timeline you're looking at, because and and I'm not criticizing Halloween, I love Halloween, there's it's my favorite movie of all time. Um Michael is the absence of character, and uh, if we're looking at Halloween one and maybe Halloween two, probably not a zombie. He's just a guy who can take a couple of bullets and keep going. If we're looking at like four, five, and six, uh I reanimated by the cult of Thorn, I don't know. I I love those movies so much, they're so nostalgic. Um yeah, I I I think either he's just a very tough, crafty guy, or there is a a cult that is reanimating him. But and I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and you can you can end the call right now if this offends you. I loved Halloween Ends and I loved Halloween Kills. And I love what I love most about those films is the ambiguity of the supernatural. Is he uh we I just don't I don't know. This evil that's passed on to him and Corey, is it just evil or is it just trauma recognizing trauma? Uh you know, it it's really interesting stuff that I think I think Halloween ends is an excellent art film that it doesn't get the credit for being as well crafted of an art film as it is. I it didn't Did a defense of Halloween ends a little while back, and I was surprised at the number of people who were like, You know, you're probably right, or I'm gonna give this a second shot. Um, there were very few comments who were like, You're doing the devil's work here.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:10

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:13

But um I think it's genius. I mean, he's the shape, right? And I think there's some I think it's very telling uh what is it? I love that. I I said today in the comments of one of my videos that that's the best character name, uh the most descriptive character name I've ever heard. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:29

It's completely fitting for answering what we just what we were just talking about, right? Like he is not, so yeah. But yeah. Um yeah, I don't know. I think what are your favorite zombie movies? I mean, I there's I again, I feel like there's so many to pick from.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:47

It changes daily, um, but it tend to stay within the Romero world. Uh I love Dawn of the Dead. Um, I love the social commentary. And I think that's really another thing that zombie films do well outside of telling really good interpersonal stories. It's social commentary stories. And I love Night of the Living Dead, although my hot take on Night of the Living Dead is that um Ben was probably wrong, and that uh Harry was probably right to stay in the basement. Um that said, I respect what Ben represents in the time that that film was made. Yeah. And I know Romero didn't set out to make a film that was a civil rights film, but I respect the fact that Ben is a civil rights icon. And I respect, outside of that slap he gives Barbara, I respect his leadership. Um right behind me, I don't know if you can see, right there is a Knight of the Living Dead art piece done by a guy named Byron Winton, signed by the living, the living cast members uh of the film. So Judith O'Day, Russ Dreiner, um uh Judith Ridley, Kyra Shon, and the legendary John Russo. So I I do have a Romero autograph in the house, although I didn't get it myself. My wife won it at an auction at a convention, but um, I never got to meet George.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:05

But um yeah, being a Pittsburgh guy, it's a sad thing. Yeah. That's that would have been phenomenal. I mean, you just talk about owing a lot. I think it's amazing to me that again, being I think him being the grandfather of zombie, the zombie genre, and what other subgenres that follow, they all go back to him. That you had this moment where he asked that moral question of okay, that's great. You have no problem killing these grotesque creatures, they're no longer human, obviously no longer human. But what happens when it's your kid? Right? And when he confronts you with that, that is what's ultimately shocking, right? Like that's guts being, I mean, for the time, the the you know, entrails being ripped out and eaten and whatever, that's that is shockingly grotesque, but nothing is I think as devastating, as impactful as what happens when it's your daughter, right? Yeah, Cairo with the trowel is is a devastating moment.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:08

And just not being able to do it. And then I think fast forward to you know, Walking Dead, and it's just like we've had so many iterations of of zombie films, you know, whether they're from Ui Bull or from, you know, whomever. Uh we're at the point as a society, I think, in the Walking Dead era, where it's like, there is no coming back. What are you doing? Who cares if it's your daughter? Are you insane? You're gonna get everyone else infected, and you go through that, it's no longer a moral question, but a moral frustration with the survivors. Uh so it becomes more of a bigger instead of being focused on a kind of an in kind of an introspective question, and it goes to like a meta question, right? And I think we I'd like to I like it to be where it's both, right? Where it's I think we need to rephrase or reframe where we are with the zombie genre, if it is indeed something that is a social commentary of the times. Right. And so, you know, that's kind of I think if we're gonna continue to ask more questions, you have to say, well, if this, but what about this? You know, and if this, then what about this? Right? Yeah. And so I think that's what's interesting, I think, to a lot of us, and what when you look at elevated horror or the hor the movies that really are impactful and that you remember, you know, of the 50 horror movies I've watched this year, there's a few where I'm like, well, that's a standout, and that's a standout. And that made me think I guess that's a secondary goal of a film, any film that I do is I want to make sure that people talk about it not five minutes after the they watch the film, but five months after they watch the film, and you know, something that bothers them enough that they need to ask themselves, reflect on themselves and their own standing and positions on things, and then also talk to other people about it, right? Like that's another, I guess, secondary goal that I would have. But yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:14

There's there's some things that I'd love to talk to you about on camera, and I think we'll probably have to wait to bring you back for uh just before the sequel or the prequel is is gonna hit because I'd love to dissect a couple of the ethical dilemmas that this film presents. Um from my from my own experience as a father, uh, I would love to I would love to dive into those uh in a more open way. So um I know you said you didn't have a favorite horror film of all time, or that you couldn't pick one. And that's totally cool. But I typically ask that question next to all of our guests. So I'm gonna give you the ability to say, I can't decide uh if you choose to, or I'm gonna give you the ability to say, here's a list of five that I'd say will always be contenders in my list.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:55

Uh I mean, I I do have a favorite horror movie, hands down. Easy, that's an easy one for me. It's acting. I'm kidding. Twilight.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:06

My brain would not accept that as an answer. I was like, what? What did you did? I hear that.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:12

Most scary vampire of all time.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:14

No, uh most scary answer of all time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:20

But he, you know, yeah. I mean, if we are gonna talk talk about Twilight, it always struck me as weird that you had this hundred-some-year-old guy hanging out at high school who falls in love with an 18-year-old. I mean, I in my 40s, there's no way I would ever find an 18-year-old attractive. I don't care how physically attractive they are. I don't care if they look like they're 20 or 30. The conversation would drive me insane.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:48

So I think it's a lot to bridge the common ground there uh based on lived experience or shared experience. It would be a very challenging thing for me as a 42-year-old man. Well, um, let's uh let's bring this down the home stretch. Where can people find you if they want to check out what you're up to next and what you're working on? Great. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:08

Thank you for for uh promoting that. So I'm on Instagram, mostly on Instagram at Morley underscore Nelson. Uh I do have a TikTok account that I check infrequently, uh, and that's Morley Mewing uh on TikTok. The only reason I say mewing is because I get a ton of questions about my jaw. Um it is real. I've had to live with it, it's horrible to shave, it's everything that you know, but I can take a punch. So um that that's always that. And I can shovel snow with it. So the and then IMDB, of course, I'm I'm I think I'm the only Morley Nelson on IMDb. Um so you can always find find out what I'm up to there. But we'll uh hopefully we'll be in production the last week of January, and uh we're hoping to do we're scheduled for a 20-day shoot right now. Prequel um about and it once you watch the movie, it'll it's a prequel delving into how the man got to where he is in the beginning of Uncontained. And so um I don't I I ascribe to the idea that if you're gonna do a prequel or sequel or any kind of second movie to the original, it needs to be bigger and better. Otherwise, there's no reason to do it. And so we have a I'll be doing a lot more stunts and uh there'll be I can't remember how many zombies we have, but we have a lot more zombies in this one, and we have a lot more action, uh a lot more action driven, just because I think once you watch Uncontained, you'll understand the man's the the condition we find the man in. He's obviously been through some kind of war. Um, and that's what the prequel is going to be about. And then we also have a sequel ready to go. And the sequel will be obviously where Uncontained leaves off and finishing with the whole family theme.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:11

I am desperate for that story to pick up. Personally, uh those themes and the the characters resonated with me significantly. But I am curious about the man, and uh I he he does feel like a stoic gunslinger, so I'm very interested to see his journey from question marks to the the good-hearted, damaged form we see him in at the beginning of Uncontained. Thank you for uh for joining us and thank you for leaving us on this sort of philosophical note. I think that's what this podcast does in an interesting way, is bring a little bit more of the philosophy back to film. And you are such a phenomenal guest for achieving that goal. I can't thank you enough for being here. I can't thank you enough for your time. We've gone so far over time. Uh you're just a delight. Uh is there anything you'd like to leave us on?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:57

No, I just be be nice. Don't spend energy on bad stuff. Who has time for that? Just be nice to each other, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:38:05

Absolutely. Be sure to check out Uncontained on Amazon Prime. It is a phenomenal film. Follow Morley on IMDB, Instagram, and TikTok if he's there that day. Uh and stay tuned for his upcoming projects. They all sound phenomenal. And as always, stay spooky, my friend.